bluzlvr
518 posts
Jul 25, 2013
12:34 PM
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I'm trying to learn to do tongue flutters. I'm referring to the beginning of Whammer Jammer and what Kim Wilson does so well.
I've already seen all the how-to vids (Lee Sankey etc.)and I know it takes a long time to learn.
Anybody out there been successfull building up that tongue speed?
The only way I can think to practice it is to move my tongue back and forth as long as I can on a draw over and over again.
I'm getting the right sound, only very slowly.
I wonder if it would help to practice the movement without a harp.
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timeistight
1308 posts
Jul 25, 2013
12:43 PM
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I think the Whammer Jammer flutter is on-off, not side-to-side. Adam did an interview with Magic Dick where he (Dick) talks about it.
Last Edited by timeistight on Jul 25, 2013 12:44 PM
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The Iceman
1049 posts
Jul 25, 2013
1:06 PM
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I do know that side to side movement is one of those hereditary traits (like some can curl their tongue, some can't). Many are born with the ability to rapidly move the tongue this way.
I wasn't, so I've had to work at it. My breakthrough came when I realized I was trying too hard. When I lightened up the pressure of my tongue on the harmonica, it started to happen for me, although it still feels unnatural.
I did start slow.
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The Iceman
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fred_gomez
136 posts
Jul 25, 2013
1:27 PM
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practice spanish RRRRRRRRs your gf will love you too.
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Ray
446 posts
Jul 25, 2013
4:41 PM
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timeistight is right. Magic Dick uses's the on-off flutter. In an interview with David Barrett Kim Wilson said he seldom uses's the on-off and mainly uses the side-to-side. Little Walter also used the side-to-side most of the time.
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puri
111 posts
Jul 25, 2013
8:04 PM
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Everybody starts slow. I remember thinking I'll never be able to make it fast and it happened not long after that. If you don't mind spend sometimes or maybe a lot of time thinking about it I could give you an analogy that might help - here goes...
First you have to find to angle/position of the harp in your mouth that give you the fattest tone possible when you do the slow on/off action with minimum to none effort - this is the first key!
Now the biggest problem is how to get faster without losing that soft touch because the first thing that your tongue will do as soon as you think "now I've got the tone, I'll get faster" is tensing up! It would happen so naturally that you won't be able to avoid it and eventually you'll get stuck.
You can't avoid this muscles reaction because it reacts directly to the way that you think! You probably might think I'll tap faster and I'll tell you that's the wrong thought. Your tongue will tense up when your brain tells it to tap faster, this will happen every time if you don't change the brain's order.
Let's look at the action(s) of the tongue in each stroke, after you tap your tongue once what do you have to do in order to tap it again and again? You have to pull it back, right? This sound like a silly question but I'm sure that there are lots of people that just focusing on tapping alone and not aware of the "pulling" action.
Now that makes it two actions in each stroke. It's also not possible to try to control both on and off action in a fast speed. Too many tasks for the brain and the tongue. So my suggestion would be this; first, set the default positon of your tongue to the "on" position - meaning tongue blocking 3 left holes and you get a decent tone on the right hole (or the other way round) with ZERO EFFORT if you can get this then there's the only thing to think about is pulling your tongue off the harp and then let it bounce back to the "on" position effoertlessly. This is the only way to do it fast, it's never about tapping it's all about PULLING - to put it easy for you, when I do it what goes on in my head never be "tap tap tap tap tap tap.....as fast as you can" - it's not gonna happen that way, it's always after the "default "on" position I would just think pull pull pull pull pull...." that's how it happens for me.
I know this can be quite confusing the way that I described but give it a go and hope you see what I mean. I promise you it'll help. Good luck.
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The Iceman
1052 posts
Jul 26, 2013
5:30 AM
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good one, Puri.
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The Iceman
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Pistolcat
470 posts
Jul 26, 2013
12:54 PM
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Very interesting angle puri!
Here's a link to a earlier thread that delves into tongue flutters... http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/2135475.htm
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
Last Edited by Pistolcat on Jul 26, 2013 12:55 PM
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BronzeWailer
1095 posts
Jul 26, 2013
3:04 PM
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Thanks Puri.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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SuperBee
1328 posts
Jul 26, 2013
5:38 PM
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In my mind I sing "la la la la la" and my tongue knows what to do...
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puri
112 posts
Jul 26, 2013
7:20 PM
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Thanks guys, I hope it helps, also remember one thing - you can't slap hard if you don't pull hard or far enough. That's what I keep telling myself when I do it.
Another tip about this tongue flutter (I never liked the term by the way - it's nothing but a quick slaps, the term tongue flutter was long established in the musical world and I found it's confusing to call it like that) anyway, for a more modern blues/rock band like J. Geils Band and others what you often here is just that - a rapid tongue slaps that I described in the previous post but if you listen to more traditional blues harp guys they usually do it differently (not talking about side flutter here), they often start the flutter with a pull-slap which gives the note a very hard hit in the head - much more effective than just slaps.
If you don't know what it is then you might consider give dave barrett's website a go maybe just a month or two and you'll get something to work on for the next 6 months, it's really worth it.
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WinslowYerxa
375 posts
Jul 26, 2013
7:32 PM
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"you can't slap hard if you don't pull hard or far enough."
Far enough, I agree with. But "hard" is completely unnecessary.
Al you need to do is move your tongue far enough off the harp to sound all the notes in your mouth, then back on *quickly* and completely - hard is pointless because it's about doing it quickly and landing accurately.
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Winslow
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puri
113 posts
Jul 27, 2013
5:14 AM
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well, not the term to describe the actual action, I use the word hard to remind myself not to go autopilot and do it opposite way. I still forget to do it properly every once in awhile especially when I'm drunk and my tongue and thought get sloppy.
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ReedSqueal
461 posts
Jul 27, 2013
6:47 PM
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@SuperBee - I think that is as concise as it gets. Good way to put it. The only thing to do at that point is move the tongue to the face of the harp while still maintaining the lalalala's.
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Go ahead and play the blues if it'll make you happy.
-Dan Castellaneta
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bluzlvr
519 posts
Jul 28, 2013
1:19 PM
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Thanks for the response on this you guys. I'm gonna start putting some of these suggestions to use.
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