doctom
7 posts
Jul 12, 2013
3:35 PM
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Hey guys,
I've been using a Hohner Bluesblaster mic and am not thrilled with it. The main problem is feedback as I'm playing with a loud band.
Someone recommended the Audix Fireball-V but before I buy another mic I would like a little feedback (not that kind!). Does anyone have experience with this mic?
Thanks!
Tom
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rogonzab
339 posts
Jul 12, 2013
3:40 PM
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Tom,
What amp do you use?
How good is your cuping techinque?
Can you use a PA to mic the amp?
What kind of music do you play?
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1847
910 posts
Jul 12, 2013
3:42 PM
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i have two of them,..fireball".. it is a fabulous mic
but it will not solve a feedback problem
if you have an older hohner blues blaster
with a crystal element "151"
that is one of the best mic's to own
a kinder anti feedbacker works well with that mic and a fender bassman. the kinder box is like $400.00 dollars , but worth every penny.
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third times a charm!
Last Edited by 1847 on Jul 12, 2013 3:44 PM
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Greg Heumann
2263 posts
Jul 12, 2013
8:24 PM
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Your microphone is not your feedback problem. You are trying to get your amp to play louder than it will without feedback.
Using a PA to mic an amp is OK for it to be heard out front, but adding that signal to the monitors to better hear it on stage is usually counter-productive - feedback will get worse.
You can make a given amp more harp friendly and by adjusting its gain you can make the feedback more controllable, which in turn allows you to play closer to the feedback level. But if you're trying to get a 10W amp to be heard on stage with a loud band..... it just isn't going to work. Loud band? Gotta have a Big Amp.
I know it sounds loud as hell at home, but trust me on this. Been there, done that, wrote the book.
P.S. - A Fireball is a great mic IF AND ONLY IF all you want is acoustic tone. If you want to be able to "play" the amp+mic to get overdriven fat tone by cupping - the Fireball won't do that for you.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Jul 12, 2013 8:25 PM
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Stokes Bay Slim
16 posts
Jul 13, 2013
3:51 AM
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Try a Lonewolf Harp Shield anti feedback pedal. Had mine a short while and it's working great with a loud band and is not too expensive "Big Amp" advice from Greg is spot on - as he always is.
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SuperBee
1305 posts
Jul 13, 2013
4:21 AM
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Hey Tom. I wonder how loud your band is and what you are running your mic into.
Greg has pretty much covered it I think. But 'loud' is a very wide range. I once had a band which was loud. People think my current band is loud. So do I, but I can get by with a Princeton Reverb now. i tried to use it with the other band and I may as well have left it unplugged. In that 'very' loud band, the pedal mentioned above was worse than useless.
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JellyShakersTipJar
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doctom
9 posts
Jul 13, 2013
7:11 AM
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@rogonzab
I'm using a Special 6, cupping technique is reasonably decent. Even when using a line-out &/or micing the amp I get feedback when I try to be heard over the band (loud SRV style blues/rock).
@1847
The mic I have is just a few years old and from what I've been told it has a cheap Japanese crystal. I was thinking about getting the Lone Wolf anti=feedback pedal but I think the ultimate solution will be a bigger amp like a Bassman.
Thanks!!!
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Udderkuz03
6 posts
Jul 13, 2013
8:16 AM
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Try a direct box...600 ohms output..live wire di box at guitar center. Or a shure 545sd....250 ohms impedance...sometimes a noise gate works
.try cutting back on the midrange eq.
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rogonzab
342 posts
Jul 13, 2013
9:32 AM
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You need a bigger amp, 6w is not enough for the stage.
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1847
912 posts
Jul 13, 2013
9:44 AM
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I posted a video the other day of kids in a garage jamming
He was using a jt 30 roadhouse, it had a Japanese or Mexican crystal element, I was surprised to hear how well it sounded.
A bigger amp will help, but it can also give you much louder feedback lol I have on occasion used my 5 watt champ mic’d thru the pa with out issue, I do use a monitor
To hear myself, and yes you have to be careful
Or feedback will be a problem, but it is one of the best sounding amps you can use. Experiment!
The fireball mic is a clean sounding mic for sure.
But to say it will not overdrive an amp is a fallacy
No “it” will not “distort” but that is a good thing!
It leaves the amp to do the heavy lifting.
It also will allow you to use various pedals without,
Coloring the sound. Hopefully I will be able to record
This afternoon using it. I think it will surprise more than a few people.
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third times a charm!
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dougharps
416 posts
Jul 13, 2013
10:56 AM
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I have a Fireball V and like it. It is great for cupped acoustic playing. With a tube amp it does not distort, but it can (with an in-line impedance matching transformer) push an amp into distortion and allow louder volumes without feedback than with an omnidirectional CM or ceramic bullet.
It allowed my GA-18T Explorer to get much louder before feedback than I could get it with my EV-630 or SM-520D. It sounds good through a tube amp, but I agree with Greg that it is not the same sound you can get when you "play" a CM Bullet and tube amp.
I have recently been using my Shure 585SAV more than the Fireball, and the 585 will break up more than the Fireball V, but still not like a bullet. The cardioid pattern lets you get louder before feedback becomes an issue than an omni.
First try different placements for your amp. I have tilted my Gibson back in front of me like a monitor and mic'd it to the PA Mains, letting it be the stage monitor for the band. Sometimes that helps with a loud band.
Ultimately you may need a larger amp, or two amps.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jul 13, 2013 10:59 AM
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Rick Davis
2105 posts
Jul 13, 2013
12:07 PM
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I bought a Fireball mic a few years ago and returned it to Musician's Friend right away. I was interested in trying it because the common notion on Harp-L was that this mic was the cure for feedback.
It wasn't. It had such low output that it might seem to some that it was feedback resistant but it was just lowering the volume. You can do that with the volume knob on your amp. And the mic was way to clean for my tastes.
I know it is a good quality microphone and it serves a great purpose for players looking for a bright clean tone. But it wasn't for me.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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walterharp
1136 posts
Jul 13, 2013
4:03 PM
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if the band is so loud that a line out from a small amp will not get you heard, a bassman will probably not get you loud enough. Not a very fun situation to be playing in. Strangely, when it gets real loud you have to trust the soundman to get your sound out through the line out, not bother too much with the monitors, and get earplugs. Then you can at least hear what you are doing a little as the sound of the harmonica conducts through your jaw.
Then all the other tricks apply with not standing right in front of the amp, only cupping tightly when you are playing, using a mic with a volume control so you can turn it down when not playing, using a bit more treble for cut etc....
Alternatively you might be better off at that point playing through a vocal mic. A vocal to a mic is generally about as loud as a cupped harp (not much louder for sure). If the vocals are getting drowned in the mix and cannot be heard in the monitors the band is waay to loud.
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dougharps
417 posts
Jul 13, 2013
4:30 PM
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@Rick Davis
The mic you bought was a Fireball V? (The regular Fireball has no volume control and is brighter.)
I assume you used a transformer. I never viewed it as low output, maybe average output.
I have found that with small amps like the Gibson Explorer 2-6V6 I can get more volume before feedback than with a bullet, and since I have the amp almost wide open the sound is certainly not clean. With a big amp like a Bassman it would not work this way, and would be too clean.
But as I said, the Fireball V will not sound like a bullet. Any breakup is speaker and amp only, not the mic. I am not recommending it as the ultimate feedback solution. It is best straight to the PA, with some highs rolled off. But it is a versatile mic at a decent price that can also be used to mic amps to the PA. No proximity effect like the 57, though...
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Doug S.
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Rick Davis
2107 posts
Jul 13, 2013
4:53 PM
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Doug, it was a Fireball V. I used the Audix rat-tail IMT with it.
Here is my review from 2009.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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BigBlindRay
189 posts
Jul 13, 2013
6:46 PM
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Hi doctom.
If you are using a Special 6 amp on stage then you will need to get your band to turn their collective volume DOWN.
Alternatively get a bigger amp.
Or alternatively, ditch the amp altogether, get a lone wolf Harp Attack or Harp Break, a decent D.I and run through the P.A entirely....
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Big Blind Ray's YouTube Channel
The Big Blind Ray Trio
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Greg Heumann
2267 posts
Jul 13, 2013
11:18 PM
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re "if the band is so loud that a line out from a small amp will not get you heard, a bassman will probably not get you loud enough."
I disagree with the above. First, I doubt the issue is being heard. At least, that's an easy issue to solve. Mic the amp or line it out into the PA and bring it up in the mains. The problem is hearing yourself on stage. Remember it takes 10x the power to get twice as loud. From my "All About Harmonica Microphones..." doc:
Yet it takes twice the power for a 3dB increase in SPL. Now here’s the thing. To double the volume (an increase of 10dB), we need ten times the power! Hypothetically, your 5W amp might make 93db – which is freakishly loud in your living room. But to hear on stage with a typical live band you need about 103dB– that’s an increase of 10dB. Therefore – going from a 5W amp to a 15W amp isn’t going to do the job. You need 50W.
So - A Bassman probably WILL make a meaningful difference.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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Kingley
2881 posts
Jul 14, 2013
12:53 AM
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A Bassman would make a big difference compared to the VHT on stage. If you can't afford a big amp or don't want to carry one, then just use a Harp Attack or Harp Break into the PA.
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