BronzeWailer
1063 posts
Jul 12, 2013
3:28 PM
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When I first started harp, the focus was on getting a single note, then bending, then bending to pitch, then playing notes in sequence, then (belatedly) timing and tone, tongue blocking etc. Fits and starts. Wrong turns and detours galore. Lately I'm also trying to improve cupping and hand work in general, both acoustic and amplified. I know Adam and Lee Sankey and others have vids on how to hold the harp. SBW II and Sonny Terry used their hands to great effect it appears. Bonny B seems to use the base of his hand near the wrist? in some videos. I heard Phil Wiggins blocks the empty holes with his cheek. Just wondering from you "old hands." Who do you emulate in this regard?
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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sonny3
25 posts
Jul 12, 2013
4:53 PM
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Jason is great at hand effects.Also watch you tube vids of Sonny Terry and Butterfield playing driftin' and driftin at Monterey.
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BronzeWailer
1064 posts
Jul 12, 2013
6:44 PM
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Thanks sonny. Jason makes that thing talk! Gonna take me and my hands into the woodshed now.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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1847
911 posts
Jul 12, 2013
7:14 PM
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. I heard Phil Wiggins blocks the empty holes with his cheek.
did you hear that from phil?
i didnt think so
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third times a charm!
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walterharp
1132 posts
Jul 12, 2013
7:37 PM
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I think jason also accentuates the wah sound with his mouth shape... he gets a wah sound with both and using them together gets a great sound like a muted trumpet
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KingoBad
1343 posts
Jul 12, 2013
9:06 PM
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I think Big Walter used his hands the best, but Phil Wiggins is awesome with his too...
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Danny
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BronzeWailer
1065 posts
Jul 12, 2013
9:41 PM
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Your point, 1847? Are you saying this is wrong, or that the info is not to be trusted? If you need to know, I heard it from my harp teacher who heard it from Phil Wiggins. So what?
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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The Iceman
996 posts
Jul 13, 2013
4:21 AM
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BronzeWailer..
I worked w/Phil for about 9 years teaching at Augusta Heritage Blues Week and Centrum in Port Townsend.
Phil's hand work is amazing. He makes a muted trumpet sound like Miles Davis. I spent a lot of time w/him trying to learn to sound like him, but, of course, I ended up sounding like me.
We never discussed cheek blocking, but this is a well known technique to help make the cupping air tight.
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The Iceman
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12gagedan
267 posts
Jul 13, 2013
5:38 AM
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Joe Fillisko has insanely good hand effects in my opinion.
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12gagedan's YouTube Channel
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BronzeWailer
1068 posts
Jul 13, 2013
5:43 AM
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Thanks for the input guys. I have neglected this aspect and believe it is another thing I must study seriously, but is sometimes given short shrift in instruction. I will look at all the guys you have pointed to, and check out what they are doing with those hands...
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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Pistolcat
425 posts
Jul 13, 2013
5:48 AM
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I second on Joe Filisko. Of course SBWII had great hands as well. Good use of hands deepens your bends and is really useful on making the four blow (or any blow note) sound better when playing second. I guess that is also true for first pos but I not good enough at it to say for myself.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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Tuckster
1298 posts
Jul 13, 2013
7:00 AM
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I had a short workshop with Phil Wiggins last year. I also got to stand 4 feet away from him on stage and had a really good view of him in action. He's somewhat unusual in the fact that he opens and closes the cup with his left hand,with the low holes on the left. I noticed that he was also left handed. I've seen Estrin do the same thing,but only to give the sound a different texture. He mostly cups with his right hand.
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Philosofy
473 posts
Jul 13, 2013
9:49 AM
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Joe Filisko has probably studied and analyzed the use of hands more than anyone. He has a video on them at blues harmonica.com
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TheATL
51 posts
Jul 13, 2013
2:55 PM
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Already said - Phil Wiggins is a true master. At the last HCH, he was the only one playing a little bit off the mic. He talked about using his cheek as part of getting a good seal.
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walterharp
1135 posts
Jul 13, 2013
3:54 PM
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taking it the other way, in some songs with solos on the acoustic mic, i play only holding the end of my harp with my thumb and little finger, the crowd seems to really like that as they can see your face and get an idea of how your mouth is moving up and down the harmonica (though admittedly the tone is pretty thin that way, but it adds texture). Actually I think that is one reason that guitar playing is so popular as a solo... the audience can see exactly how the player is wanking away up there.
The other part about using your hands is it can be part of the show as it is much more visual, particularly exaggerated hand wahs and even sort of slapping your free hand from way out down into a cup, makes a percussive sound and makes for some drama as well.
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colman
254 posts
Jul 14, 2013
4:37 AM
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James Cotton has super harp hand tech.,he has always grabbed my attention seeing him live.
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The Iceman
998 posts
Jul 14, 2013
5:36 AM
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Two comments from my personal perspective.
1. When creating the "wa wa" sound, use hands exclusively. Once you start to mouth "wa" while playing harmonica, it interferes with creating a solid note.
2. Why not start to move away from this harmonicky sound and explore the powerful sound of a vibrating reed on its own terms?
If not done in the recreated style of an Old Deceased African American Gentleman, I find so many players overuse this effect. Even visually, when exaggerated, to me it looks slightly embarrassing.
A few of the existing blues masters have mentioned to me (when the conversation turned to this subject) that, with a good seal, you only need open a little bit of it to create a desired effect..(Phil as stated above, Charlie Musselwhite does that cute move with his two fingers).
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The Iceman
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Pistolcat
427 posts
Jul 14, 2013
6:54 AM
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Mr iceman.
The hand wah is a very unique 'harmonicy' sound that guitarist envy us and spend dollars on gear to mimic and still can't come close to.
An instrument's voice is not only the notes it plays but how they are played an the range and fullness of said voice is beautiful and should not be confined or muted.
The visual aspect of an performance should not and can not be disregarded as humans take in experiences with multiple sense when possible. This is true not only audio-visual but audio-visual-olfactorial-tactile as well.
In medicine we call this 'Ars Medica' the art of medicine as a counter pole of the science of medicine. This include the way you talk, look and touch patients as the bond between the patient and physician is more important than the knowledge of the physician to the result of the treatment.
The bond between a performer and his/her audience is more important than the sound waves that is created. In this a exaggerated, 'larger than life' hand wah can have its own importance.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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The Iceman
1000 posts
Jul 14, 2013
11:01 AM
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Mr. pistolcat...
Notice I said "my personal perspective".
I definitely have a more individual and less "crowd based common denominator" orientation in how I approach almost everything, including performance and harmonica.
Therefore, I value uniqueness and fresh approach much more than reproducing, regardless of how the 99% of those "Citizens" in the crowd react.
However, I've found that performing "uniqueness" in harmonica to a crowd of "Citizens" usually stops conversation and creates quite an amazing response.
If this didn't work out so well in my own personal experience in real time to real people, I might spend more time Wah-Wah'ing and making my hands flutter like two drunken birds.
So, to each his own, as I've often said before.
If you value wah'ing and hands waving, more power to ya.
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The Iceman
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walterharp
1137 posts
Jul 14, 2013
11:08 AM
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@iceman
I completely respect your point that large whas are mainly showmanship, and you are certainly right that the very smallest amount of de-cupping leads to most of the wah sound, so that part just comes to taste. You line up well with Buddha, who was very anti hand vibrato and thought it was gimmicky.
Not so sure about not combining hand and mouth wah. The only way I can get close to the way that Ricci sounds, say on Broken Toy, is use both..Maybe if he is reading this he can chime in. Of course there is always more than one way to skin a cat :-)
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Kingley
2885 posts
Jul 14, 2013
11:24 AM
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The use of hand techniques in amplified playing is a good thing to have in your arsenal. You only have to listen to William Clarke's monster intro on "Daddy Pinocchio" to hear the effect it can have when placed in a musical context with taste.
To me the use of the hand wah wah is like the use of the tongue flutter. It can easily be over done and can often sound extremely lame if used too often. When used with restraint though and in the right place, it can enhance the textures within a song beautifully.
Last Edited by Kingley on Jul 14, 2013 11:25 AM
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harmonicanick
1995 posts
Jul 14, 2013
11:34 AM
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@The Iceman
Congrats 1000 posts
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The Iceman
1002 posts
Jul 14, 2013
11:38 AM
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harmonicanick..
thanx. whew, my hands were starting to cramp up going for this milestone.
Do I get a certificate or something?
(do you actually sit and count them up? %>)
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The Iceman
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harmonicanick
1996 posts
Jul 14, 2013
11:59 AM
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It's underneath your forum name!!
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BronzeWailer
1069 posts
Jul 14, 2013
3:50 PM
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Thank you all. Some valuable tips and insights.
@The Iceman, I see where you are coming from. My idea is to first get to grips with the tips and tricks as well as I can to have the broadest palette available. I can then choose to use or discard them after having learned to a certain extent.
Just as my singing teacher is helping me with the high notes -- not so I can be Tiny Tim but when I occasionally go up there it sounds smooth and not too terrible.
Interesting comment about exploring the "vibrating reed on its own terms." Lee Sankey in his series on country harp suggests breathing in to a count of eight and out to a count of eight and changing embouchure to get fat and thin tone. I have found that very instructive and I feel more in touch with the reeds. I recommend it to anyone relatively new to exploring the wonders of the harp.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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The Iceman
1005 posts
Jul 14, 2013
4:17 PM
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Lee is on the same page as my approach for the last 15 years. Only, in my classes I teach "LONG TONES" as the key to self realization of tone and also to self discover the answers to many questions regarding tone/bending/vibrato/control etc.
Too many students have come to me playing short duration of a note or a bend attempt. When it doesn't happen right away, they stop and repeat.
I lead them down the path of - whatever you are trying to discover, give yourself a lot of time to adjust your variables. In other words, play that note or attempt that bend using LONG TONES....how long can you sustain that one aspect while examining all your variables.
It doesn't take too long before the student realizes that, through steady breathing control, they can let a note hang in the air for 20, 30 seconds easily. This gives them something to work with over time.
One can, for example, find out just where that investment of energy/most return for the effort line exists, meaning, how much force do you need to use to really fill the room up with one note (4 hole inhale, for example) for a good 30 seconds without having the note implode on itself or start to sound shaky.
One approach I suggest is, from silence that note is "born". As soon as it appears, make sure that it expands outwards to fill the room and make sure that, over time, it in no way starts to deflate, until you wish that note to end. At that point, give it a solid ending (perhaps letting your tongue hit the roof of the mouth to cut off the air flow sharply). Make the note appear out of the front end of the harmonica like a solid beam of steel without weak spots, cracks or blemishes.
Once the student can hang the note out there, solid like steel and fill the room, he now has a lot to work with and shape to his liking.
I compare it to being a teacher of clay sculpture and don't want the student to come in and give me a marble sized piece of clay to shape when he needs to give me a boulder sized one.
Eventually, the student learns, through LONG TONES, how to self correct and create what he wants without me having to constantly hand feed him all the answers.
It's wonderful to behold when a student reaches this point.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jul 14, 2013 4:18 PM
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BronzeWailer
1070 posts
Jul 14, 2013
4:23 PM
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Thanks, Iceman. I like your analogies. They make intuitive sense. I guess it's up to me to turn that into musical sense!
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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Baker
310 posts
Jul 15, 2013
6:29 AM
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I always thought Kim Wilson did some great work with his hands when playing acoustically. Especially on the CD he did with Big Jack Johnson – Couldn't find anything on it on YouTube but here's the iTunes link, you can hear snippets. – https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/memphis-barbecue-sessions/id376132421
Also here with Odetta – Towards the end he is using very little hand movement to create Waha.
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mlefree
105 posts
Jul 15, 2013
10:30 AM
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PT Gazell does a great job integrating his hand work into his playing. Almost every note is flavored to some extent by his cupping. He also has a unique style of how he cups relative to the position of his mic'. He places his mic' underneath his hands and opens his cup at the bottom.
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SilverWingLeather.com
email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
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Lmbrjak
150 posts
Jul 15, 2013
12:52 PM
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Here's a master
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Nothingcandy
10 posts
Jul 15, 2013
8:24 PM
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I've always been impressed by Rice Miller's hands. They seem enormous.
He always had a pretty good idea of how to use them as well.
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