walterharp
1129 posts
Jul 10, 2013
11:57 AM
|
Hey all,
I have been having some issues with sound guys versus my ear. I like my bassman set with the bass at 3/4 mids low and treb 1/3 up. The tone seems pretty fat, a couple guys behind the board have had trouble punching up my solos without getting a muddy or feedback sound. When I back off on the bass and up on the treble (and the presence) they get happier, but to my ear the tone is not as fat. Anybody else have suggestions on this? It seems there is an inherent balance between treble cut and bass tone..
Cheers,
Walter
|
Kingley
2866 posts
Jul 10, 2013
12:05 PM
|
Try getting the sound guys to keep you out of the monitors and your EQ in the PA flat. That way all they are doing is making your original tone louder. That shouldn't present problems with feedback or muddiness.
|
Rick Davis
2092 posts
Jul 10, 2013
2:18 PM
|
Kingley, yes!
BUT..... The final EQ on PA systems is often bright, with the tone faders in the "smile" form. That is why on the channel EQ I usually roll off the mids and highs.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Jul 11, 2013 10:03 AM
|
S-harp
126 posts
Jul 10, 2013
3:58 PM
|
What's your band's sound? Is the soundscape crowded in the lower register? Is the harp upfront or further back soundwise?
In some settings I can really work the lower register, in other settings I just get burried in low register mud trying to work a bassy sound.
Usually though, I find that the treable really needs to be there, or else it will be a dull, muted and often burried sound in the mix, specially during solos, so I turn the treable pretty high on my amp and controll the tone and highs with cupping. On the board I turn bass up, mid down and treable flat or a nudge down ... all depending on the PA.
The monitors is another story. Often they sound crap and don't give you the true out sound, so when possible I listen to the out sound from the floor during sound check.
When I play I usually do the backups mostly fully cupped and during solos I open up my playing more to cut through and get that needed variation in sound. That's when I need treable.
----------
The tone, the tone ... and the Tone
|
Kingley
2869 posts
Jul 10, 2013
10:24 PM
|
"The final EQ on PA systems is often bright, with the faders in the "smile" form."
Veyr true Rick. That's because most people with PA systems have absolutely no idea how to set the EQ. The "smile" form is the worst way to get a good sound on any PA. It's creates a much lower feedback threshold and kills a lot of the mids, which are important for any instrument and even the vocals.
Last Edited by Kingley on Jul 10, 2013 10:25 PM
|
walterharp
1131 posts
Jul 11, 2013
10:00 AM
|
@s-harp, the band is full in all registers (2 guitars and keyboard), harp is mixed pretty far forward when our own sound guy does it.
I am curious how you deal with volume if cupping when comping but open with solos, as the volume seems to go way up when cupping?
In general I try to use my amp to monitor, though there is some in the monitors across stage so the other guys can hear.
In general I do not care what my tone sounds like on stage, as long as it sounds good to the audience. But I can hear it with my amp as being ok. Maybe it is a factor of higher tones getting to my ear on stage but low dropping with more with distance so the mic for the PA picks up a greater portion of bass.
Thanks for your ideas, I will work with our sound guy and try to get it better. When we use other sound people all best are off I guess.
|
Greg Heumann
2253 posts
Jul 11, 2013
10:25 AM
|
Of course you can't hear what it sounds like where you aren't. But I can tell you that it sounds very, very different out there - the combined sound of the amp and PA. And whether as an audience member you're in the "cone" of the amp's projection or not. Ultimately what you hear on stage isn't as important as that sound.
You have two choices. You either trust the sound guys to do their job - or you have to get out there, walk around and hear what you sound like out front yourself. How? (warning, warning, warning, shameless plug coming up.....) Get yourself a Wireless system from BlowsMeAway Productions.
----------
***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Jul 11, 2013 10:25 AM
|
S-harp
134 posts
Jul 12, 2013
2:04 AM
|
walterharp ...
" I am curious how you deal with volume if cupping when comping but open with solos, as the volume seems to go way up when cupping? "
Well, it's more dealing with tone than volume ... further more, I don't do all soloing uncupped, on the contrary, I do most parts more or less cupped. What I mean is, when soloing I like to have the highs available when opening up ... if the settings are such that most highs are rolled off it just sound dull to my ears.
Volumevise I know what you mean that a tight cup gives more volume ... but I find that it doesn't always mean that it sounds louder on the floor ...
----------
The tone, the tone ... and the Tone
|
DukeBerryman
74 posts
Jul 12, 2013
7:54 PM
|
@Greg The only way I can tell how I sound is to stand 12'-15' in front of my amp. Requires 18'-20' mic cable. There is a sweet spot that the amp speaker seems to project to. And, boy, does that sweet spot sound good compared to hovering over the amp twisting knobs.
On a related point, I've just about given up on 12" speakers. I only get the bass punch that I like with a 10" speaker. Honestly, I think you get a better low end tone cupping and using a 10" speaker.
----------
Duke Berryman - Chicago blues, harmonica, guitar
|
Greg Heumann
2262 posts
Jul 12, 2013
8:17 PM
|
@Duke
Yeah, a 20' cable can get you out front but its useless for anything but a pretty small venue. You want the reinforced (PA) sound to sound good all over - and ideally to sound like what you hear when you're in that cone. If the sound guy is in the cone and doesn't move to where he isn't to hear what MOST of the house hears, he probably doesn't have you EQ'd right. Fortunately for us AND the sound guys, I see more and more of them controlling the board from an iPad - so you can TAKE THEM TO LISTEN and say "make it sound over here like it sounded over there."
----------
***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
|
DukeBerryman
77 posts
Jul 12, 2013
8:25 PM
|
@Greg That is so cool - is there anything an iPad can't be used for?
Someday I'll get your wireless SM57 - can't wait to just walk around, and with a volume knob, haha.
----------
Duke Berryman - Chicago blues, harmonica, guitar
|
walterharp
1133 posts
Jul 13, 2013
6:45 AM
|
part of the problem with all this is it is pretty impossible to hear what you really sound like while actually playing. I think I need to bring my looping pedal and during set up with few people around play a variety of things and set it to repeat then tweak the amp and have the sound guy tweak the pa... but then every room is different...ah well if this is my worst problem.
|
S-harp
139 posts
Jul 13, 2013
5:51 PM
|
walterharp ...
Well, in the best of worlds it would sound great on stage. But it pretty much never does. Forget it. Almost never happens.
Must believe that the PA delivers great tone when you stand on stage and deliver, even though stage sound just is a muddy musch.
Look cool and deliver ... that's prio one.
----------
The tone, the tone ... and the Tone
|
