Mirco
2 posts
Jul 05, 2013
8:50 AM
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Last night, I attended my first blues jam night as an observer. I realized that I have a lot to learn before I can join a band onstage. I'd really appreciate some help so I can guide my practice more.
*When playing onstage with a group of strangers, who makes the decisions as far as key, tempo, etc? Do people take turns?
*What sort of information would the band agree upon before starting a jam? Would saying something like "12 bar blues, medium shuffle, key of G" be enough for everyone to go on?
*How does the band communicate with each other, as far as knowing who's taking a turn to solo or when it's time to end the song? I was trying to listen for some musical signal but I couldn't really pick up on anything.
*Are there any resources available that will ease me into this sort of thing?
As a little background, I have been playing for about 6 months. All of my practice has come from beginner's courses and workbooks, as I really want to get good fundamentals before moving on. I used materials by Adam Gussow, Jon Gindick, JP Allen, and David Harp. And Adam Gussow is coming to my town in two months and I desperately want some skills by then.
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The Iceman
985 posts
Jul 05, 2013
9:15 AM
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Who makes the decisions? Usually the most Type A personality on stage and/or whoever is going to sing.
"12 bar blues, medium shuffle, key of G" works, but you also have to tell them where to start .. "Take it from the top" or "take it from the turnaround".
Whoever called the tune usually points to the soloist to give them a turn and also cues the song ending.
Go to more jam sessions, watch and participate. As a newb to the scene and also to your instrument, expect them not to listen to you much...they may even skip over you during solo time unless you make your presence known.
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The Iceman
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Mirco
4 posts
Jul 05, 2013
9:55 AM
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Thank you very much!
Someone would have to say where to start. Right! Makes sense. Might they even start at a certain bar or change? I think I've heard songs where they start at bar 5 or 9.
One of the encouraging things I noticed last night was that the harp wasn't as prevalent as the other instruments. The bass, the guitar, the drums are pretty steady, but the harp player could come in and out of the song. It's encouraging as someone who isn't so confident in his abilities.
Maybe I should start, as Gindick says, playing the "horn line" (first beat of a bar).
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Greg Heumann
2248 posts
Jul 05, 2013
10:18 AM
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"*What sort of information would the band agree upon before starting a jam? Would saying something like "12 bar blues, medium shuffle, key of G" be enough for everyone to go on?
Yes - you need to count it off. The assumption is that you will all start on the I unless otherwise noted. An alternative is to start on the V - i.e., the last 4 measures of a standard 12-bar blues progression - as an intro to the tune. So say what you mean.
*How does the band communicate with each other, as far as knowing who's taking a turn to solo or when it's time to end the song? I was trying to listen for some musical signal but I couldn't really pick up on anything.
This is the tune leader's responsibility. It is your job to control who solos when if you call/lead (sing) the tube. When it is time for solos, make positive eye contact with the person you want to solo next sometime in the last 4 bars of the current verse. You can point at them too. You can even mouth the words - "you're next". That gives them a chance to prepare, and play a "pickup" (i.e., notes before the downbeat of the first measure) if they choose. By default, solos should be 24 bars (two verse) long. Good musicians will make eye contact with you when they're ready to hand it off. You should have already primed the next person. Once everyone has solo'd, you take over again - usually singing a final verse, playing a final 12 - but it is flexible. Then you need to signal the drummer that the end of the tune is coming (again, sometime in the last 4 bars of the current 12 being played.) If you want a break, raise your arm up and slam it down at the beat of the break - otherwise trust the drummer to signal the end and everyone else should hear it and play along.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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harmonicanick
1984 posts
Jul 05, 2013
10:27 AM
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It all depends on the jam and the host(s)
Go along and just watch to get a feel for the standard of music, the vibe of the jam ie. are people welcomed?
Introduce yourself to the host and be honest about your level of play and take it from there, good luck.
Last Edited by harmonicanick on Jul 05, 2013 10:28 AM
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FMWoodeye
720 posts
Jul 05, 2013
10:56 AM
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It might serve you well if you could spend some time with a guitar player just one-on-one in a casual, relaxed venue, like your basement or living room, just to get some rudimentary experience playing with another musician, just fun, campfire-style stuff.
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rpavich
66 posts
Jul 05, 2013
2:32 PM
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I agree with going to more jams and maybe introducing yourself to the organizer and maybe even asking if you can just comp in the background and not solo.
I've played guitar for a LONG time and in many bands...and playing with people that I don't know is very stressful....I don't know why...I always feel like everyone is judging everything and that makes it even worse...
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Reed Triller
130 posts
Jul 05, 2013
2:41 PM
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Great questions. I wondered if it was the same as certrain drum circles and it seems to be very similar. Glad to know. I need to go check some local jams out myself.
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"Bend it like Ricci" - Me
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Rick Davis
2051 posts
Jul 05, 2013
3:05 PM
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Mirco, at this stage of your jamming do not try to play songs note for note. Just jam. Keep it very simple. If you try to play a Little Walter (or any) song you will get all fouled up in the timing and changes. Just relax, hit the chord changes, and have fun.
I see lots of new players try to play "songs" at my jam and it almost always ends up a train wreck. It is too hard for them. You can see them fiercely concentrating on the mechanics of the melody instead of on the performance. Take little parts or riffs from favorite songs and build them into your harp jam "vocabulary." Put less pressure on yourself and don't worry about getting everything perfect. You will be amazed at how many people will come up to you later and tell you how great you did.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Jul 05, 2013 3:07 PM
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rpavich
67 posts
Jul 05, 2013
3:36 PM
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What Rick said is very good advice....I'm a noob harp player but I've played guitar for 30 years or more and I can say that the one thing that I've learned is that people would rather you be SOLID, and have great TIMING, and be CONFIDENT, and PROJECT a fun attitude and play SIMPLE SIMPLE SIMPLE than the guy who plays super fast with bad timing and looks down at the floor the whole time.
Trust me on that.
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markdc70
131 posts
Jul 05, 2013
3:45 PM
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If there are different jams around your area, visit them all to see which one suits you best. I've been to some where you are welcomed and encouraged like a long lost friend, and others where you can tell that they're just waiting for you to mess up (and that usually makes me do just that). Usually if the singer isn't COMPLETELY absorbed in himself, he will cue you to take a solo when the time comes. One thing to remember is that most people have never heard someone play blues harp in person and will more than likely just love your playing. The thing I struggle the most with is just trying to relax at first.
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Rick Davis
2052 posts
Jul 05, 2013
4:00 PM
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Here is a good example of keeping it simple. Even Kim Wilson does it:
On his solo he plays long notes, leaves space, and marks out the changes. On the turnaround he wails on a 6 draw and then walks down from the 6 blow. Beautiful and basic.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Jul 05, 2013 4:07 PM
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atty1chgo
662 posts
Jul 05, 2013
4:03 PM
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If the musician calling the song tells you that there will be a key change or two, not to worry. Take out the appropriate harp and put it in your pocket. I've seen the pleasant surprised look from the guitar player when he sees that you have adjusted with the change
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LSC
463 posts
Jul 05, 2013
5:20 PM
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All good advise so far. I would add one thing. Don't overplay, i.e play all the time over everything, and don't step on another guys solo. Those are the classic newbie harp players mistake. Keep it simple. Leave space and pick your spots but when you get the nod step up and make a statement. Then lay back again.
Basically, just listen to a lot of records and watch a lot of videos to see how the big boys do it. It ain't hard.
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LSC
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bluemoose
901 posts
Jul 05, 2013
5:24 PM
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Classic Kim vid. Of note is he is using two vocal mics. One for singing, one for harp which will have been EQ'd for harp, roll off the highs.
MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
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fred_gomez
104 posts
Jul 05, 2013
6:25 PM
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do you sing man?
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FMWoodeye
723 posts
Jul 05, 2013
6:36 PM
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RE: Keeping it simple. I have worked on licks and combinations of licks, licks that impress ME once I've mastered them. When I'm in a living room or jamming at a party and play this brilliant combination...whoosh...it seems to go right over everyone's head. When I pull that long four-hole draw, heads turn and thumbs go up. I've told other musicians, "Watch this. I'm gonna play a whole solo with just a four-hole draw, a two-hole shake and the Mannish Boy lick, and the audience will love it." They do. Before I knew of guys like Todd Parrott and Jason Ricci, Corky Siegel was my hero. He didn't play a lot of technical stuff, but he played clean, simple, cool licks (and performed like a demon) and brought down the house every time. I continually have to remind myself to play to entertain the audience rather than entertain myself.
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Mirco
5 posts
Jul 05, 2013
8:56 PM
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No, Fred. I don't sing. I guess I should work on that, too. I'm hearing good advice from everyone. Thank you, really.
The message I'm getting is just to play something simple and within the range of my abilities. I think I'm going to start by comping in the background and playing the "horn line". Err on the side of caution, if anything. I've got Gussow's jam tracks, and I'll start by playing along to those, just playing the root notes to start. My wife plays ukulele, too, so I'll get her to play a 12 bar blues.
The places I would be going are local blues bars, so most of the regulars are used to harp playing. I can't rely on their ignorance of the instrument. The level has already been set for pretty high harmonica playing.
Here's the guy who leads the jam session, Aki Kumar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHgxYdTy1Vw
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fred_gomez
107 posts
Jul 05, 2013
9:08 PM
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well when i dont sing i usually stick to the rule dont play when the singer sings. i dont stand and look stupid i just sorta back off the mic play acoustic chugging stuff. when your ride comes they will let you know. if theres horns you can step on their toes be careful. i never play when the keyboard takes a ride at that momment i do shut up completely and pretend to play. i only do call and response and double lead with the guitarist like on foghats "i just wanna make love to you"
intro. if youre using the house vocal mics be careful about feedback (this is why i dont cup going through house pa i use a stand) who are your harp heroes BTW?
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KingoBad
1338 posts
Jul 05, 2013
11:11 PM
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Yeah, Ali Kumar is top notch. We know who he is.
I know there are some fantastic players that go to that Jam, including several guys from here. I believe JoeL from here hosts that jam on occasion for Aki.
I would really take time and talk to all of the harp players you see play there. Ask them what they think, and be prepared to show them what you can do. They will let you know if you are ready. If you are, they will probably even help you onstage.
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Danny
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harmonicanick
1985 posts
Jul 06, 2013
1:05 AM
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@Mirco
'The places I would be going are local blues bars, so most of the regulars are used to harp playing. I can't rely on their ignorance of the instrument. The level has already been set for pretty high harmonica playing.'
Wow, you are very lucky to live in a place where there is:
- A blues bar
- More than one blues bar
- Already harp friendly
Jams are social occasions, hang out and chat to people, and enjoy yourself. There are very few Harmonica players if you compare the numbers to guitarists. Let them inspire you.
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rpavich
68 posts
Jul 06, 2013
2:20 AM
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Comment on the Ali Kumar thing. YOU know how much better he is...and WE know how much better he is but honestly...the average Joe doesn't get it...they really don't.
They don't know whether you are almost as good or 10 miles away...they realize that he is better...but they don't care...really they don't.
It's hard to get out of the musician mind-set of who's better and who's not...but try.
Trust me.
To them...anyone who can play is about the same...
When I get nervous it's due to other musicians doing the "mental comparison" (I used to play guitar so you can understand why I'm screwed up) :)
Last Edited by rpavich on Jul 06, 2013 2:22 AM
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SuperBee
1281 posts
Jul 06, 2013
5:46 AM
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Nice observation Mr Pavich. I have noted that when I play well and when I fluff it, nobody cares...maybe that's because I sound ordinary even when I play out of my skin...but what you said about 'anyone who can play is about the same'...that's about right.
I couldn't believe the audience response I got the first time I played Easy to a room; the parts with the shakes were getting cheers. I was a tad self conscious about the head shaking but I think it adds a touch of theatre and if it sounds ok and looks crazy, they lap it up.
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JellyShakersTipJar
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Rick Davis
2054 posts
Jul 06, 2013
6:18 AM
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Aki Kumar is a great player and jam host. He will take good care of you.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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Kingley
2852 posts
Jul 06, 2013
7:36 AM
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Mirco - My advice is to talk to Aki Kumar, Joe Lempkowski and Andy Santana. All those guys are regulars at the jams and know the jam scene in CA very well. I'm pretty sure they'll give you sound advice and help if you ask nicely.
Those CA jams are often attended by some of the best blues players around. People like Steve Freund, Mark Hummel, Kid Andersen, Dave Barrett, Gary Smith, Kedar Roy, Greg Heumann, June Core, Rick Estrin and many more are often found playing at them. I can't imagine a better place to learn how to play blues and jam etiquette than in CA.
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Mirco
6 posts
Jul 06, 2013
9:34 AM
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Thanks, all. It sounds like I need to get out of the house more, away from all these harmonica workbooks and videos. Too much time in the woodshed. I need to play more with other musicians.
I remember a line someone said, Mr. Pavich, about how the average listener wouldn't know the difference between someone who had been playing for 10 minutes vs. 10 years. That's an exaggeration, to be sure, but maybe there's some truth there.
And Fred: my harp heroes would be Sonny Boy II and Howlin' Wolf. I love the Chicago sound. I also like how Neil Young, on his earlier albums, used the harp to echo the vocals line. I guess that's the takeaway here: harp playing can be simple but still very effective.
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Kingley
2855 posts
Jul 06, 2013
9:42 AM
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"I need to play more with other musicians."
That's the best way to learn how to really play.
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