rogonzab
312 posts
Jun 19, 2013
9:44 AM
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Hi,
I am not shure about this, so correct me if I am wrong.
Acording to this:
http://www.musiccenters.com/vol.html
a +7db increase equal to (kind of)4x power.
So, if my Laney Cub10, 10w tube amp, has a 10" 94db speaker (Celestion Tube 10), and I change that speaker for a 12" 101 db one (Eminence Patriot red white blues), that is the same (in theory) as having a 40w amp?
I am not looking to turn a 10w amp into a 40w amp, I just want to increase my volume enough to hear my self on a jam, whit guitar player who use 25-30w amps.
I am in the right direction?
Thxs!!
Edit: I just found a 12" Eminence Wizard that is 103 db!! that is 9db more than my actual speaker (94 db)
Last Edited by rogonzab on Jun 19, 2013 6:24 PM
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Jim Rumbaugh
870 posts
Jun 19, 2013
7:09 PM
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This is a good article on the subject:
http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/tone-tips-speakers-revisited.aspx
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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SuperBee
1232 posts
Jun 19, 2013
8:34 PM
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Rzab, does your amp allow you to turn up all the way without feedback? If not, I expect, although there may be some change (not necessarily for the better),you will still find feedback around the same SPL. With a more efficient speaker you will get louder quicker in terms of where you set the volume knob. So you will find feedback a little earlier on the dial, have a bit less range to work in.
I think.
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JellyShakersTipJar
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5F6H
1640 posts
Jun 20, 2013
3:52 AM
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As Superbee says, often with much larger magnets/voice coils & higher sensitivity you can get less useable volume due to increased propensity to feed back (which the SPL/db charts don't account for because they are based on low amplitude signals from a signal generator, with no acoustic component & not an acoustic signal played into a harp mic with a volt or more output). Also frequency response of the speaker (and subsequent perception of loudness, again propensity to feed back) is a big issue.
Also consider no 40W amp uses a single Celestion Tube 10". 10W into 8ohms will hit the speaker with 9volts AC, 40W into 8ohms will hit that same speaker with 18volts AC which is the equivalent of 4x the power.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
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Last Edited by 5F6H on Jun 20, 2013 3:53 AM
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rogonzab
314 posts
Jun 20, 2013
7:02 AM
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I cant put the volume on 10 and the gain on 6-7 (tone in 3) in my amp, and that is as far as I can go whitout feedback.
It make sence that an louder speaker can give me the same feedback problems, because the higher frecuencies woull be louder to (right?).
But my goal is not to turn a 10w in to a loudnes machine, I just want to be able to compete whit 30w guitar amps (Fender Frontamn 25r most of the times). I know that a biger amp is the way to in this case, but I think that I am not that far of my goal whit my actual amp.
In my regular jam I can hear myself on stage a litle, people in the audience has told me that they can hear the harp but always ask me to turn it up more, and my bandmates almost cant hear me on stage.
That is my situation.
As you can see, I just need to be a litle louder, but in my country a 30w or even a 20w tube amp is way to expensive to me right know.
So, whit that info, a louder speaker would help?
Thxs to all of you!
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5F6H
1641 posts
Jun 20, 2013
7:34 AM
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More, louder speakers (3/4x10" @8-16ohms) would help if they didn't make feedback worse.
How about a line out/load box feeding the PA/bigger SS amp, like a keyboard amp?
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www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
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rogonzab
315 posts
Jun 20, 2013
7:45 AM
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Are you talking about an external cab? I guess I can build a 2x10 just buying one more speaker (maybe a 1x10/1x12) and save for the third one.
I need to watch the frecuency charts of the speaker so I don en up whit a more treble speaker, right?
The Eminence Patriot red white blues is a good bet?
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Red_White_and_Blues.pdf
We dont play whit PA, the vocal mic it is use on a Crate guitar amp.
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5F6H
1643 posts
Jun 20, 2013
7:52 AM
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Cannabis Rex 12" & Delta Demon 10" both get a lot of mentions for harp...also Alpha 10" & Legend 102 amongst Eminence models.
Red White & Blue wouldn't be my first choice.
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http://www.facebook.com/markburness
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Greg Heumann
2213 posts
Jun 20, 2013
9:23 AM
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Here's the short answer. You will NEVER be able to compete with a guitar player's 30W amp with your 10W amp if he has it cranked. Guitars can play much louder without feedback than harps. If you want to play at his level you need a 50W amp and a lot speaker. You can also mic or line-out your current amp to the PA so the audience can hear it - but hearing yourself on stage may still be an issue. Solve gthat by getting the amp up and closer to you and/or (as a last resort) sneaking a little into the monitors.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
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arnenym
154 posts
Jun 20, 2013
1:34 PM
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IMO: Laney Cub 10 is a bad amp for harp.
You can get a good tone out of it but very low volume before feedback.
A new speaker would not help you.
You maybe can hear yourself with the amp placed in a good position and mic it out to the crowd trough a PA.
But to compete with the guitars you have to go up to 45-50 Watts.
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rogonzab
317 posts
Jun 24, 2013
9:34 AM
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Thxs to all of you for your help.
I am going to save money to buy a bigger amp. I can get a used 30w tube amp for $700 and a used Bassman for $2.000, so it going to to be a long time but that is OK, I am hapy whit my Laney Cub 10.
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