Barry Sholder
1 post
Jun 13, 2013
1:12 PM
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As I have really stepped up practice basic bends easy but these whole tone bends .....no way how do we do more than 1/2 tone bends. there has to be a secret.
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Kingley
2756 posts
Jun 13, 2013
1:14 PM
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A properly gapped harmonica will help you enormously to achieve control over all the bends. Other than that it's all a question of technique.
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didjcripey
558 posts
Jun 13, 2013
1:28 PM
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Practice.
Even if you knew how to do the deep bends, you may not be able to yet as the muscles and the control required may not have developed sufficiently.
And check out Adams tutorial on bending the three draw.
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Lucky Lester
Last Edited by didjcripey on Jun 13, 2013 1:30 PM
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florida-trader
318 posts
Jun 13, 2013
1:46 PM
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Barry. What is the key of the harp you are using? As a beginner, just learning how to bend, trying to coax a full tone bend out of a G or an A feels like you are lifting 1000 pounds. Try it with a C or a D and it's a different story - much easier. Also as Kingley pointed out, if the harp is not gapped properly it is difficult. A low tuned harp with gaps that are too wide? Fuggetaboutit!
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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FMWoodeye
663 posts
Jun 13, 2013
2:00 PM
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And once you can hit the bends, the next step is to hone in your intonation. I find melodic phrases helpful. For instance, the 2-hole full-step bend, the opening riff of Black Sabbath's The Wizard, or Cream's Sunshine of Your Love. For the three-hole bends (descending), Sentimental Journey, a hit from the forties. Start on 3-hole draw.
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STME58
462 posts
Jun 13, 2013
10:50 PM
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I agree with FWWoodye on picking simple phrases that require bends. It is important to pick a phrase you know well though.
I like to play the phrase in the middle of the harp where no bends are required to set it in my head, then shift down to the low register and use the bends. The hymn "How Great Though Art" works well for this. Play it starting on blow six and you can get all the notes without bends, then start on blow 3 and work to get the bends to match what you just played in the higher register. Any song in a major key that has 4th,of 6th scale tone (an F or A in the key of C) in it will work for this. Pick one you know well and you can tell right away if you are hitting the bend. Even just practicing the major scale on the first 4 holes helps.
Be prepared for frustration at first though. Bends don't come easy for most. For me they seemed impossible at first, then once in a while it would pop in and I would hear a sound kind of like on the recorded lesson. Next step was to try them in tunes but I was always afraid I would miss the bend, and half the time I would. Now they are second nature, but need constant work to keep the intonation on target.
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SuperBee
1219 posts
Jun 13, 2013
10:53 PM
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I used 'yesterday' starting with 2 draw. Really helps intonation on 2 draw whole step, 3 draw half and whole. Summertime is quite good for 3 draw too. And duke ellingtons Satin Doll will really work out 3draw bends; play along on a C harp.
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Rgsccr
172 posts
Jun 13, 2013
11:04 PM
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One thing that helped me was to practice with a tuner in order to check if I was hitting each bend. Didn't do this too much but it was helpful.
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KingoBad
1322 posts
Jun 14, 2013
5:34 AM
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Barry,
Before you run off and practice intonation, which holes are you having problems bending a whole step?
Also, what kind of harmonica are you using?
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Danny
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Barry Sholder
2 posts
Jun 15, 2013
10:03 AM
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Ive been playing some of adams stuff. as far as which any and all 1/2 bend right on. Is then something to push further?
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rpavich
3 posts
Jun 15, 2013
10:50 AM
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Hi,
I'm a noob but I'd like to chime in.
I'm playing SP 20's and my bending so far is doing ok...I think. I started off by saying..."there is no way I'll ever bend!" and now after a week and a half of practice...here is what I've got.
-1: 1/2 step. Very hard but I'm not good at it. Think "love sick cow"
-2: 1 step. I've got it down pretty well...sounds almost musical. I can hit it at will but not without sort of "starting higher" if that makes sense.
-3: this is my trouble hole. I can bend all the way down to 1 1/2 steps but nothing in between. In fact..anything in between sounds muffled and crappy. the note sort of "snaps" down to the 1 1/2 mark.
-4: I find this one easy to do.
So...my real trouble is the -3...any good pointers?
Last Edited by rpavich on Jun 15, 2013 10:51 AM
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Milsson
71 posts
Jun 15, 2013
12:33 PM
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Here is my advice on bending in general.
Play as softly as you can. It´s going to help you to relax.
Relax! You will never learn to get the deep bends(especially low tuned harmonicas)if you tens up. Try to move your tongue as fast as possible and think about how it naturally is relaxed. If your tongue isn´t relaxed your not getting any fast movement.
Think about your whole posture. Drop your shoulders raise your chest and stand tall. Bring the harmonica to your face and not the other way around. To many players are standing and crouching over the harmonica. Watch kim wilson or joe filisko play. They have a very powerful stance yet very relaxed.
Breathing. It´s very boring to talk about breathing but that´s were you have to start. When i first realized, some 2 years in to my playing, that you dont "popp" the bends. There´s no effort to bending, the note is always there. it´s just a slight adjustment of the tongue(or in my case the throat) and the pitch should start to drop.
Someone here on MBH once said that when you are laying down you are breathing from the tummy rather than the chest. With that in mind i took my harmonicas to bed. I laid in bed for a minute breathing then i put my harmonica to the mouth just holding it with my index fingers and practiced tone and control and it has help me a lot. Even now i practice breathing some nights for a minute or two when i go to bed.
Intonation.
I started training with a tuner but that is crap. The connection your mind have to learn is between your mouth and your ear not your mouth and your eye. The way i learned was playing the first pos major scale. First i played it on a piano then i played it on harmonica then piano then harm then pia.. and so on. Find the major scale on youtube if you don´t have a piano.
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rpavich
6 posts
Jun 15, 2013
1:19 PM
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Thanks very much Millson...I certainly do tense up.
I'll take your advice and see what happens.
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Milsson
72 posts
Jun 15, 2013
2:03 PM
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@rpavich "the note sort of "snaps" down to the 1 1/2 mark." you´re on the right track. Just do everything the same but a little less. :)
Lee sankey talks about brainstruments. I think he is meaning how we picture tones in our head. When i hit the different bends on the 3 draw there is precise steps in my head but very little movent physically. I picture three steps along my throat but i belive it is very individual how you picture it. When i bend octaves,for example the 2-5 split down a whole step, it is just a feeling in the back of my throat on the left side. It is easy when you have learned but extremely hard to explain.
The important thing is that you sit down and think about it and try to feel your way.
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SuperBee
1221 posts
Jun 15, 2013
3:49 PM
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Tongue blocked or lipped, Barry? I use to do it lipping and people told me it was not possible to bend tongue-blocked. Even a pro told me that 'nobody does that'.
If you tongue block I would point you to Dave Barrett. His stuff may even help if you don't tongue block.
What really helped me was taking lessons with a good tutor.
Re tuners, I hope you won't discount the idea. It is possible to use ears and eyes at the same time!
When I spoke to Christelle Berthon, she certainly advocated using piano for intonation, and disdained the tuner. It was also Christelle who suggested the 'yesterday' exercise.
Speaking to Ian Collard, I mentioned what Christelle said about tuners. He flat-out said 'get a tuner', you'll advance much quicker, you can see when you're solid on pitch, and it teaches you to hear it quicker.
Later I took lessons with JimiLee. The Korg CA-40 has been part of my daily life ever since.
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The Iceman
914 posts
Jun 15, 2013
4:53 PM
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My approach is to use the tongue arcing, pointing that "bump" in the tongue at different reference points on the roof of the mouth defined by the spot touched when you say the consonants "T" "D" "K" "Guh".
Using and really understanding these placements eventually allows you to TB bend with precision.
I don't recommend using a tuner...it is one step away from getting that pitch firmly in your inner ear, where it needs to be in order for you to create the bend and place it where you need it.
Using a tuner, you stare at it with your eyes as you wrestle with pitch placement. Not the same as really knowing where the pitch is placed from inside yourself...using your inner ear.
Here is a simple example of how to bypass the tuner.
Inhale hole 2. Use this as a starting point for you to sing "That spoon, that spoon, that spoooonful" (assuming you know this tune...I remember it from Cream).
When you sing "spoon", this is up a minor third from the tonic (2 hole inhale). This is the pitch you want from the harmonica for that 3 hole inhale first bend.
Sing it...make harmonica play it...sing it.. make harmonica play it. Pretty quickly you should start to "own" this 3 hole first inhale bend without using any crutches or tools outside of your own body.
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The Iceman
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Piro39
42 posts
Jun 15, 2013
8:10 PM
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All very good advise, one thing I would add is that once you figure it out it is absolutely effortless. There is a weird construct in a beginners brain that makes them think that bending is a wrestling match with the reeds and one has to fight the reed into submission to bend. The real problem beginners have is that they are usually leaking air out of the sides of their mouths and their noses. This is a very important problem to correct first otherwise one will have a difficult time learning how to bend.
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harpdude61
1714 posts
Jun 17, 2013
1:10 PM
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Tilt the back of the harp up, drop the jaw,totally relax, no kissy shape, and keep the tongue down and out of the way. (Arching the tongue up makes your resonance chamber smaller. It does work for bending but thins your tone. It's cheating.) Now say "kuh" and get your throat used to working. Slight movement of the Adam's Apple starts the bending process.
Most people don't have the patience or want to put in the time to master this technique of bending. If you will, techniques like over-blowing, overdrawing, throat vibrato on bent and unbent notes, blow bends without closing your jaw, and much more will come easier and with a much much richer tone..
Give it a try if you want the best control possible over pitch and the richest tone possible on harmonica.
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The Iceman
921 posts
Jun 17, 2013
5:15 PM
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"cheating"?
(koff)
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jun 18, 2013 6:13 AM
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rpavich
14 posts
Jun 18, 2013
6:09 AM
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OH wow...good pointers...thanks very much....I don't know spoonful but I can use other intervals to learn the muscle memory required!
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The Iceman
924 posts
Jun 18, 2013
6:13 AM
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@rpavich...
don't know spoonful?
no problem.
get thee a Low F harmonica and a C harmonica.
On Low F, play hole 4 inhale, 5 inhale.
Pick up C harmonica and duplicate these notes starting on 2 hole inhale to 3 hole inhale first bend. alternate harmonicas until you can duplicate the sound.
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The Iceman
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