This is for those who play traditional/harp based songs and probably sing and lead the band as well.
I've formed a band a few months back playing pretty much only this style from LW to westcoast stuffs. No power blues, no spacejam, no blues standards but lots and lots of meeting points and breaks and different kinds of shuffle - hope you know what I mean.
We had a debut last Wednesday which was a blast because everybody was concentrating and we really had a good time but then last night we had to sub the house band without much notice and all the arrangements & grooves just went out the window, most of the songs sounded pretty much the same. It was close to disaster at some points. We did survive the night alright in the end and I wouldn't take it too hard since it only our 2nd time with a very short notice but it would be silly to not trying to learn something from this experience.
If the original song has lots of breaks & kicks in its arrangements which basically make it more interesting, would you try to keep it like that or cut it out and simply just improvise through it for the sake of safety?
With the kind of shuffle that has that laid back/swing snare drum (think Jimmie vaughan's shuffle to jump style like William Clarke) if the drummer doesn't get it would you bother explain it to him or simply just go with straight triplet shuffle? (Getting another drummer is not an option yet)
I'm just curious to know how would you guys deal with it? Also any advice beside the answers to my questions is more than welcome.
If you are leading a jam, I think anything complicated can be waffled. I'd personally expect breaks to get run over unless you see everybody's eyes.
I'd get your drummer a cd with the groove you are speaking of... If this is a drummer at a jam - good luck. I'd rather go without a drummer than with a bad one.
On the plus side, I think everyone should pull a train wreck a couple of time to know that they will survive. Pulling it out of a nosedive can be very rewarding in itself.
I've had to improv for 24 bars after the end of a song before because a guitarist couldn't see me jumping up and down and waving while I was 4 feet in front of him....
@Kingobad - It's not a jam, it's my band although the 2nd set usually turn into a jam at this bar. I think apart from not doing enough homework, not looking/listening is the problem on stage
- It's my drummer, he's a bit on and off with the groove, he's not bad but laid back/swing seems against his nature somehow.
- I did realised that, it actually gave me a boost to get better.
Many questions ... and interresting ones ... Drummers ... and shuffles ...
Shuffles are difficult. Mysterious almost. If the drummer doesn' t have it in his bones the shuffles feel stiff ... rock 'n roll -like. Is he a rock drummer? For me shuffles are what makes a drummer a keeper or not From your OP I get the impression that maybe the shuffles works at rehearsals? Then fine ... back to the woodshed to get the more difficult arrngmnts in your bones. If your drummer doesn' t have shuffles in his bones and changing drummer is not an option, then good luck. He probably has maaany hours to whip the different shuffles in his bones.
What does your bass player say?
I find that a blues band beeing able to improvise freely together can pull almost anything of on stage, as long as they keep their faces straight. Starting to straighten the drummer out on stage is a no no, people are there to have fun, not to watch a rehearsal. Then it is better, before each song, with a quick go through... "ok, slow blues, break after the second what ever" Communication really helps a drummer on stage ... an eye that says ... ok, here comes the break / signature / take it down ...
Good Luck ...
---------- The tone, the tone ... and the Tone
Last Edited by S-harp on May 19, 2013 9:19 PM
@S-harp, yeah, he's a former rock drummer - louder & faster on stage kinda drummer but I wouldn't complain much at this point, just like you said that people are there to have fun wether it's musicians or the audiance so I'm kinda just keep doing it and hope for the best I guess.
I considered rhythm like this an art really, it really seperates men from boys because you can never find the words to explain it - ofcourse we're boys :)
Hey Puri. Some good advice already here. I think you're right not to worry too much. It always takes a while for a new band to settle in to each other. The key is to play/practise together as much as possible. The more you're in each others musical company the more you will learn about how each other plays and you'll find it easier to fit in around each other. The whole thing will tighten up. This will also mean that people will learn to be more flexible with each other so if mistakes are made you can fix them on the fly.
I've been with one band for about 5 years now and I can still tell the difference when we've been practising regularly compared to when we haven't.
I understand that this is not a jam situation but the most successful jam sessions I have ever played at are ones with a really strong leader. Someone who knows exactly what they want and makes it very clear to the rest of the band when are where to play. etc. This not only means telling everyone before you start "Its a slow shuffle in E, come in on the 5, but also while you are playing nodding, pointing etc.
Play with people who do their homework. If it is a cover tune, people should learn it before rehearsal.
My general philosophy is no learning a song at practice. If someone doesn't know their part, then we skip it. If they come back again and don't know it, we drop the tune. If it is a pattern they get the ax. I have totally "fired" people for wasting rehearsal time.
I also generally insist that there is not soloing or tons of gear adjustment. Rehearsals are focused on making sure we can start a song, end a song, and have any weird transitions figured out.
I am working with a duo partner now and it took some jamming to figure out what we were going to be about. We decided it would be 90% rock steering away from classic rock for middle aged men. We came up with a set list based on Tom Jackson's formulas from On Stage Success. We have then be rehearsing songs in the order of sets and making changes to things that won't work in a "show" setting.
The biggest mistakes bands make are not having enough solid material and treating each song as its own piece of a show. Bands lack a big picture.
We have scripted spots to talk, jam out, switch to acoustic, etc...all calculated. What is up in the air is how long jams play out, the liberal use of effects, what is said to the crowd, etc. ---------- Mantra Customized Harmonicas My Website
As a drummer ,primarily- it takes work to play a shuffle if you come from a rock tradition of hard 4/4. A basic shuffle needs a bit more finesse 1 and TWO and three and FOUR and . Emphasis is the hard back beat. Tell him to listen to Earl Palmer, a great New Orleans shuffle drummer. Sparing use of stop time is ok but generally sounds silly if used too much. Dancers hate it as it has no groove. The only song I really like to use stop time is an " i'm a Man " type thing. I always feel that as a drummer my job is to keep the people going, not play freeze tag or musical chairs
Last Edited by Goldbrick on May 20, 2013 12:03 PM
@puri To play this material well needs a great deal of rehearsal. Less is more in the shuffle, and timing and quality of play is paramount. Each song/number must be named and nailed in rehearsal. It is very, very difficult and weak members of the band will be exposed. Most of all if you are playing the harp you MUST know all the breaks and insist the band knows them too. It's not easy and it's a burden but the reward is you can sound like the pro's.
All great comments, I really appreciate it guys. @Mike - That's a professional approach and I know that I'll be doing that someday but as we're just started I thought I'd give everybody including myself a chance to get better at it first before we start dealing with issues professionally. The question is how long.
"The biggest mistakes bands make are not having enough solid material and treating each song as its own piece of a show. Bands lack a big picture." you nailed it - that's what in my mind, treating each song as it's own piece of a show.
@Goldbrick - Thanks for the advice, I'll let him know.
@Nick - Yeah, it's a hell of a job right now but I'll tough it out and see how far we can go with this kind of music. There are shit loads of blues band here in BKK with the same set list full of songs like hoochie coochie man, stormy monday, red house, etc... we won't end up as one of those!
