This thread is to try to find a tune of a "High Profile Player" One who's style is so unique - it is practically impossible not to know it is them upon hearing a song they are playing on...Is that possible?
Well if Adam Gussow is to be believed then yes it is. He writes " I call this the three-second test. If you turned on the radio and heard this player, could you tell within three seconds that it was them--assuming you knew their music to begin with? Each player in my Top-10 plainly meets this criterion. (So do all in the Second-10 and a fair number in Honorable Mention.)".
Personally I'm not so sure it's true. I think that when one has listened to a lot of harp players, you get more of an idea of a persons general style and can more easily recognise certain players styles. Sometimes this can be done instantly.
Recognising a high profile player from a song you have never heard before though is something altogether different. For instance I have been a fan of Rod Piazza for a very long time, but when he played on Michelle Shocked - The Texas Campfire Tapes - Graffiti Limbo, I didn't know instantly that it was him. I don't believe that anyone would have known within seconds of him playing that it was him either. Here's part of the song in question. Now be 100% honest could you tell it was Rod Piazza if you didn't already know?
I agree that those artists mentioned have strong individual fairly easily recognisable styles. However if you had them playing for another artist, out of their normal comfort zone and for example not using their signature amplified sound, I think it then becomes a much harder proposition. This is evident from the Rod Piazza clip above. That for me is a prime example of where the three second test fails. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that it's significantly harder to discern.
Similar examples have been evident for a long time. Over the years there has quite often been discussions over who played harp on what given track. Often involving very high profile names within the blues harp world. I can't think of any off hand at the moment otherwise I'd cite some instances. If I do remember then I'll post them. I'm sure that many of the more seasoned members of this forum will know of some though.
Last Edited by Kingley on May 05, 2013 7:22 AM
What were're attempting to do in this thread is...trying to stump the listener, by playing a song of a high profile player where that particular song doesn't necessarily give it away that it is them. This will be very difficult to do for certain players no doubt...Rod usually throws nuances in his playing where I can tell its him - he didn't in the tune Kingley submitted, as though he wanted to remain in cognito :)
Last Edited by Frank on May 05, 2013 7:27 AM
Players I recognize from the git-go: Butterfield, Sugar Blue, Sonny Boy Williams, John Mayall, Mark Ford, Norton Buffalo, Little Walter,Howard Levy,Pat Ramsey, Jason Ricci, Rod Piazza. There are dozens of others, of course. I don't think indentifiable styles are as rare as some of us might think. ---------- Ted Burke http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee
http://ted-burke.com tburke4@san.rr.co,
Last Edited by TheoBurke on May 05, 2013 10:46 AM
"I don't think indentifiable styles are as rare as some of us might think"
Indeed Theo your are correct. Can you post examples of those artists you mentioned playing that would stump people though? Examples where they are playing and it isn't obvious who the harp player is? That is what Frank is driving at in this thread. Like the Rod Piazza clip above. You name Rod Piazza as one of those players whom you can tell from the "git-go". Could you tell from listening to the clip above that it was Rod Piazza playing harp on it Theo? Now please be 100% honest. If you could indeed tell then please tell us all what gave him away to you.
Last Edited by Kingley on May 05, 2013 7:53 AM
This is problematic since Rod is playing acoustically, from the sound, and this is more laid back and rural than is his usual style. So no, I wouldn't have been able to guess based on context. I am not surprised to learn it is Piazza, as the style, the attack, comes across even though he's not playing straight on a mic. In any case, one ought not be surprised to find that distinct player has the capacity to step out of their stylistic comfort zone and play a different kind of music. ---------- Ted Burke http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee
http://ted-burke.com tburke4@san.rr.co,
Last Edited by TheoBurke on May 05, 2013 10:52 AM
You've all got this thread completely wrong!!!!!! How hard is it to read what Frank has written and the kind of examples he's looking for? Frank is asking for examples where the high profile player who is normally recognised instantly, to be unrecognisable. Just as in the clip I posted above with Rod Piazza on harp.
Frank clearly states "What were're attempting to do in this thread is...trying to stump the listener, by playing a song of a high profile player where that particular song doesn't necessarily give it away that it is them. This will be very difficult to do for certain players no doubt."
@Kingley: Topic drift is a fact of internet forum life, I'm afraid. Rather than play teacher with a ruler, perhaps just enjoy the conversation the way it unwinds.
Lee Oskar is probally the most recognizable diatonic harmonica on the planet, next to Paul Butterfield. Really, no one but no one gets that sound , no one but no one has such a signature style. Also, Will Scarlett. Stevie Wonder. ---------- Ted Burke http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee
http://ted-burke.com tburke4@san.rr.co,
Last Edited by TheoBurke on May 05, 2013 1:49 PM
Theo - This has nothing to do with topic drift! No one at all except Frank and myself has grasped what the thread is about. I think it's ignorant of folk to simply all jump on and comment on the complete opposite of what was being asked by Frank. It's pretty obvious that no one has read his posts on the thread. Or at least if they have they have chosen to ignore them entirely. Which to my mind is extremely ignorant.
Last Edited by Kingley on May 05, 2013 1:55 PM
Kingley, I think people are simply reading the original post, and responding to that without having seen Frank's second post. Frank's original post only talks about players who's style is immediately identifiable, and says nothing about finding examples where those easily identifiable players are not in fact easily identifiable. It wasn't until his second post that he clarified what he was actually looking for. I'm actually surprised that you were able to figure out what he was actually looking for from just his original post (before he clarified with a second post).
The way I worded the opening of the thread I can see how it can be difficult to comprehend the agenda of the thread. Though Kingleys example with Rod Piazza is a text book example of how the game is played :)
There was a tune I heard years ago where I thought I was hearing a Rod Piazza tune and it was actually Bill Clarke as if Bill was doing Rods style for the hell of it...
@Kingley: Since the topic has , in fact, to something else, it has everything to do with topic drift. And that's automatically a bad thing. You should stop harping on this. Pun intended. ---------- Ted Burke http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee
Theo - I was merely trying to get Franks thread on track and making the point that no one else seemed to have grasped what it was about, even when Frank explained it in more detail. Admittedly his OP was rather misleading as to what he wished for. Once he cleared that up though it would have been nice to see some more examples of what he was requesting. Do you not think?
tmf714 - Like you I knew of the Michelle Shocked track many years ago being Piazza. If you hadn't known though, could you have honestly pinned it as Rod Piazza instantly? I'm highly doubtful that anyone would have been able to instantly nail it as Rod's playing (using Adam's three second rule) before it became common (ish) knowledge in the harp world.
Last Edited by Kingley on May 05, 2013 3:48 PM
@ridge-it's Butterfield -I know because I attended Levon Helm's Ramble at his studio-I am also aquainted with the guitarist-Pat O'Shea,and the harp player-Chris O'Leary-from Levon's Barnburners-and Levon would talk,and take questions fron the audience-that particular recording came up several times-
Good one ridge,I can hear a few Butterfield finger prints in there, but he kept himself fairly hidden I'd say in that tune - his playing was steller throughout, never heard that one,I'm sure there are a lot of tunes I have not heard that Paul played on- or the other greats for that matter! Great tune - thanks for sharin :)
I wonder if The Stones put out "miss you" today - And it was the first time we ever heard the harp on that tune - how many would recognize it as Sugar Blues work?
