I can't help but wonder, if Little Walter was alive today would he be trying to mod that 5 watt class A amp and find that custom crystal bullet to achieve the "Little Walter" sound?
@Thieving Heathen "I can't help but wonder, if Little Walter was alive today would he be trying to mod that 5 watt class A amp and find that custom crystal bullet to achieve the "Little Walter" sound?"
There were lots of Little Walter sounds, he sounded different at virtually every session. So if you're trying to establish that "gear" had no/little influence on his sound, that would appear to be very unlikely. If he was alive today he would have people throwing stuff at him to use...though I doubt a 5W amp, modded or not (certain "mods" simply involve changes to backdate amps closer to what he may have used), would be on the agenda for live use. He said the amp had to "fill the room".
Amps from the era in which he was most active were very different from amps designed at the end of the 50's & early 60's (hence many search for a "Holy Grail" amongst old amps), in his own lifetime he was already casting aspersions on "modern" Fenders (Bandmaster specifically - the only existing amp that he seems to have been able to name without having to interpret what he said) and expressing a dislike for them. He complained about not being allowed to cup up to the mics on the AFBF tour, irrespective of the merit of the above clips, he wasn't happy about being made to play like that. ---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
5F6H - I'm not quite sure if you're correcting me or making my point for me.
My point.., At the several harp events I have attended there seems to be a heavy emphasis on a singular Chicago/Little Walter sound, to the detriment of all other blues forms. The implication being that once you reach the Holly Grail of harp tone you have made it. If you are studying Sonny Terri, Lee Oskar, Toots Thielemans, John Popper, etc., you won't ever get there.
As these videos point out, that was never the case.
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2013 12:30 PM
Theiving Heathen: Tone is relative, and personal, it's not a competition. Toots, Oscar & Popper are playing in different genres. I know players who just as proficient at amplified harp, as they are at Sonny Terry style harp (not many, because just like studying LW, studying Sonny, or Toots and achieving their recogniseable style would be just as hard) Have you thought that it's simply a case that post war blues harp is just more popular amongs aspiring diatonic harp players?
I'm not sure what it is you think the videos point out? Little Walter could play the harp, if you took the amp away, he could still play the harp...same is true of any good player in any genre, surely.
The sound in these videos isn't Walter on the way up, it's not the sound that earmarked him as one of the greats, that had be ascertained 15yrs prior, he was already accepted as a great here. It's good, if a little sad, to watch, nevertheless.
The thing with Holy Grails is that they're illusory...it's the journey, the quest :-)
I rather think your attitude is a result of your own bias, rather than all the others at these events "doing it wrong", or being misguided...there isn't just one way to anything, or have fun.
O.K. Let's see if I can dig myself a little deeper here.
The videos illustrate that there was more to the Little Walter and Chicago sound than a tightly cupped bullet mic and an overdriven tube amp. Was I supposed to consider these videos an example of the later, compromised Little Walter? Why do you say, "a little sad to watch"?
True, part of this observation might be my own bias, but that can hardly explain the market for bullet mics and harp specific amps geared towards achieving a particular sound.
I did not use the terms "doing it wrong" or "misguided". There really isn't a right or wrong, but there might be an over done.
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2013 4:51 PM
It's only sad if you knew Walter personally,or saw him play live. This is all we have,so I don't see the sadness in it-its actually joyus for me.
The first clips were filmed shortly before his death-but "Just Keep Lovin' Her" is from 1947 in Chicago on the Ora Nelle label as a sideman with Jimmy Rogers.
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2013 5:31 PM
Yeah I agree with a lot of this. Walter does not seem so excited to be there but let's be honest his band minus the drummer are not the kinda people he is used to either. I mean from the videos with Koko to these I don't think Hound Dog plays a different guitar part on any of them. I truly think Walter at that time was just trying to survive going to those shows over seas. He was probably broke and not gigging much in the states. It is sad that the only damn videos are like this I mean I would just die to watch walter, muddy and rogers on stage in the early days not to mention him with the aces. HOLY Gosh!! This video DVD also has Jimmy Reed which I was very excited to see as I love Jimmy Reed but when I saw the video I felt so bad for him it mad me sick and I do not think I could ever watch it again. They get on stage to play and his guitar is a half step out of tune. And you can see it on his face how dissapointed he is. In a lot of ways these tours were probably a let down to the guys as they did them because back home people were not diggin them like they used to due to bands from the time rippin there songs off. Little Walter even months before his death is still as bad as they come though so lets not forget that.
On that tour, he hated the musicians he was put together with, ESPECIALLY Hound Dog Taylor because he was far too limited a musician for the kinds of tunes Walter would play, especially when compared to guitar players who could pull of jazzier, more sophisticated chording, which is important for the more swinging stuff Walter played, which was a trademark of players Walter had, which were Robert Jr. Lockwood, Luther Tucker, Louis Myers (who was also a great harp player in his own right as well). These tours were put together with many different artists and often times you'd have people together who stylistically clash. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
"On that tour, he hated the musicians he was put together with, ESPECIALLY Hound Dog Taylor because he was far too limited a musician for the kinds of tunes Walter would play, especially when compared to guitar players who could pull of jazzier, more sophisticated chording, which is important for the more swinging stuff Walter played"
Not trying to really stir the pot, but I find it interesting that these guys were waining in popularity in the 60's and that LW was evolved enough as a musician that he felt others couldn't keep up with his forward sounds.
I also love the fact that LW sounded different from recording to recording, and some feel he was uninspired in these clips. I am horrible, I know.
Just think if your friends Muddy and sonny boy were playin with Matt Guitar Murphy and Sunnyland slim and Otis Spann and you got stuck with Hound Dog. Hound Dog and the others are on a whole different level. LW was at the top of his game and the top of the food chain back then. In the 50's he was like the only blues artist to play Madison Square Garden sold more records than Muddy did. So for him to get stuck with a band who didn't under stand chicago blues must have been tough for him. Just my opinion.
"These guys" weren't waning in popularity in the sixties. I don't think Hound Dog Taylor even got on record until Bruce Iglauer recorded him in 1970. He certain didn't break through until then. He enjoyed his greatest popularity in the last years of his life (he died in 1975).
Koko Taylor, who was on the same European tour, was increasingly successful through the '70s, '80s and '90s. ----------
Bigtone mentions part of the reason these guys went overseas is due to not being as popular back home. Really, the UK and such kept blues alive long enough to make it through the 60's, 70's, and 80's.
If you look at the exceptions, you can illustrate just about any point. You have to look at the rule. The blues dipped in popularity, and it took a new take on the music - British explosion, and the Blues Brothers, for example - to revive it.
The Blues Brothers weren't "a new take" on anything. They were a comedy routine on Saturday Night Live.
Lots of other comics did funny riffs on blues cliches; Cheech and Chong had Blind Melon Chitlin, for example. Ackroyd and Belushi just got lucky with their take because, basically, people are idiots. ----------
I totally agree. when rock and roll and r&b based blues came big in the 60's the Chicago style was too raw for most i'd imagine the smoother sound started taking over. Also like you said the UK had alot to do with keeping it alive. I mean do you think if Walter and those cats were doing well they would be shootin craps in the alley and runnin off with the money. Probably not. All in all the blues had had the longest run of about any music. It is still a big part of most bars and stages across the US. If these amazing guys like Muddy, Walter and Wolf had not have lived so hard and played so hard then they wouldn't have made the huge impact they had made and who knows we might all be into lady gaga.
You are so far off in your assessment, and that sort of thinking is the biggest threat to blues music.
First, no one did it like the Brothers did, nor did they have the same level of commercial success focuses on blues music as the main theme. The Brothers were successful because they were entertaining and good at what they did, which was primarily live performance of music - not sketch comedy.
The band consisted of the following:
"Joliet" Jake E. Blues – lead vocals
Elwood J. Blues – harmonica, backing vocals
Steve "The Colonel" Cropper – lead and rhythm guitar (formerly with Booker T & the M.G.'s)
Donald "Duck" Dunn – bass guitar (formerly with Booker T & the M.G.'s)
Murphy Dunne – keyboards (brought in for the film due to Paul Shaffer's commitment to perform with Gilda Radner in Gilda Live!, toured with the band in the summer of 1980)
Willie "Too Big" Hall – drums, percussion (formerly of the Bar-Kays, Isaac Hayes' band)
Tom "Bones" Malone – trombone, trumpet, saxophone (Saturday Night Live Band)
"Blue" Lou Marini – saxophone (SNL Band)
Matt "Guitar" Murphy – lead and rhythm guitar (Howlin' Wolf, other artists)
Alan "Mr. Fabulous" Rubin – trumpet (SNL Band)
Steve "Getdwa" Jordan – drums, percussion (SNL Band) (does not appear in movie)
Birch "Crimson Slide" Johnson – trombone (does not appear in movie)
Paul "The Shiv" Shaffer – keyboards, arranger (does not appear in movie)
Tom "Triple Scale" Scott – saxophone (L.A. Express) (does not appear in movie)
Those are some solid names, several of which have immense blues pedigrees. The band had a number one record and went multi-platinum BEFORE the movie was even made.
The brutal truth is two white guys fell in love with the music and made a spectacle out of it by creating carictures of the genre are a key part of the blues's mainstream run in the 80's (obviously SRV had a huge share)...which is what 90% of today's blues musicians are doing! They found a way to make it cool and a part of pop culture. If you follow Dan Aykryod, he has gone to great lengths to promote the blues, including creating the House of Blues.
The Blues Brothers created interest in the blues which led to increased exposure which led to increased money. MANY acts benefited from what they did by playing in the band, appearing in the movie (Junior Wells, John Lee Hooker, Pinetop to name a few), having their music in the movie, and riding the coattails of increased popularity of the music.
"Lots of other comics did funny riffs on blues cliches; Cheech and Chong had Blind Melon Chitlin, for example. Ackroyd and Belushi just got lucky with their take because, basically, people are idiots."
" the Chicago style was too raw for most"
I like some of the Blues Brothers stuff. It can be a lot of fun. They never intended it to be a hardcore blues band. It was always intended to be an R&B Soul Show Band. Steak is nice, but there is nothing wrong with cake.
I love blues but, it is not the only real music that is raw and heartfelt. A lot of the early jazz stuff was raw as well...it was a raw time in the country...think Strange Fruit.
There is a lot of real and raw music. Listen to some of the soul and funk scene that was coming alive in the 50's, 60's and early 70's...that stuff is raw and the blues of that period pulled from it.
Yes there is lots of over processed music from that period and now. But there is also music with true feeling. As always, you have to be down to know the music that is down.
