A harp buddy of mine emailed me a link to this video with a challenge. It’s fun, try it.
RULES: This is purely a mental challenge to test your ear. Don’t use any musical aids, including a harp.
CHALLENGE: Which POSITION is Rod playing in? Is it 1,2,3,5 or 12? You get one guess. -- No need to post your guesses, but it would be interesting to know if you got it on the 1st try without using a harp. I thought I had it and I was wrong. Once you know what it is, please don’t give the answer. (At least not right away)
I think he switches harps when he's off camera. The high notes around 2:26 are definitely in 1st. But the bulk of the song (I believe) is a different position. My initial thought was that the whole tune was in 1st - that is until I tried playing it with something else...and then the notes just laid bare on the harp.
As far as the key, I believe Ab is correct.
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2013 1:15 PM
I have this DVD, which doesn't mean a whole lot, lol. It sounds minor. First position could work for that, and it is the obvious choice based on the timbre of the notes....where you hear bends and such.
However, just do be difficult, without trying to play it, I am going to say it is 4th.
4th is the relative minor of 1st, and it sounds like, a lot of the riffage is based off of that arpeggio. I think I hear a lot of 3" and 2". I also *think* he is hitting the 8' on the high parts.
So...I am going to say most the Aeolian mode in 4th with a few flatted thirds. It would be easy for a good 1st position player, especially Mr. Piazza to pull of a blues song like that.
People talk about 5th being awesome, but I would try to play a song in 4th before 5th about 99% of the time. I would 100% of the time try 3rd first, lol. ---------- Custom Harmonicas Optimized Harmonicas
Or 5th...it very well could be 5th. It is hard without learning a couple riffs, but I am leaning towards 5th after two listens. ---------- Custom Harmonicas Optimized Harmonicas
I believe he’s using a Lo E in Fifth in the Key of Ab. (Personally, I used a LoF because I transposed from Ab to A using Audacity.)
A couple of days ago I posted Blues Harp Serendipity. I think this tune is a good example of how using 5th Position, but using a harp one octave lower that you might normally can really sound like 1st . The available octaves for the 3b and 7b make some sweet things possible that just aren’t there in 1st.
If you have a Lo E, please try it in 5th. On the high stuff switch to an Ab, then back to Lo E to finish.
I had it on the very first note. I waited until the second set of notes before being sure.
Of COURSE it's first position. The moment he sings and hits a descending melismatic run, that's proof.
What makes the harp/position choice unusual is that he's playing first position against minor chords. So he stays away from the middle octave--because he doesn't overblow and can't play the flat third or fifth or seventh there--and he moves between the low octave and the high octave. When he plays the high end, he hits the 8b bent to keep it as the flat 3rd.
Good challenge! I've never heard a pro player play first position on a minor-key song. I'm sure it's been done elsewhere, but this is the first time I've heard it done.
For the record, I didn't look at any posts before writing my summary judgment in the first two sentences above. Then I glanced very quickly at what others had posted--long enough simply to see that others had said 1st position.
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2013 8:18 PM
Seems to me that Ab in 1st and Lo E in 5th sound very similar and this can readily be played either way with some slight nuances.
Watch the video closely. Rod begins with a few words, then he plays the next set of notes. Watch his inhale/exhales. The second to last note (2D) in that grouping is a passing draw note and it's a 3b. That's not 1st, it's 5th - isn't it?
BTW, 5th is a very good choice for minor sounding tunes, is it not? The flat 3rds, 5ths and 7ths are simple draw notes.
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2013 8:54 PM
Noodles, you're overlooking a point that even if it was 5th position (it isn't) Rod probaby wouldn't call it that anyway, the old guys (I mean the guys Rod was influenced by, Rod's merely "mature") called the 2 or 5blow tonic 4th position...not that this was particularly relevant to your challenge... ---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Jan 23, 2013 2:54 AM
@kudzurunner:"Good challenge! I've never heard a pro player play first position on a minor-key song. I'm sure it's been done elsewhere, but this is the first time I've heard it done."
The one warble he does sounds a lot like 5th, but like Adam says, staying away from the middle octave is a give-away for 1st. If you like first you should love 5th. It is perfect on a minor tune such as this and cool licks are available in all three octaves as well as some cool octave splits between root (2,5,8 blow) and minor 3rd (3,6,9 blow).
Last Edited by on Jan 23, 2013 7:47 AM
Most folks don't practice 5th enough to use the position convincingly...Dennis Gruenling could "nail" that tune in 5th...5th is cool- if you ACTUALLY use it enough to make serious music with it...Most folks I hear using 5th sorta just toy with the position, but can't do anything of power or substance with it...Gruenling, Ricci, know what to do with 5th. I agree 5th is a GREAT position - but 5th usually takes a GREAT musician to make it WORK like it should.
Last Edited by on Jan 23, 2013 8:17 AM
Fifth is a position I have not played with yet. If I recall, hvyj would often say that 5th has a lot in common with 2nd, so it should be pretty natural for most of us to go there. When I look at the position tabs I have (see my profile) for 5th, there is a lot of great potential in the 3 hole (draw, blow, and all bends) and for the 6 hole (blow, draw, bend and overblow) for major blues, let alone minor. I think I'll make this position an exploration project for this year. ----------
5th is the relative minor to 2nd (well, depending on the scale used). The reason I instantly went with 4th is that the playing sounded like 1st (see my first post), is because the are relative to each other, and 1st was the obvious first choise.
To an extent, you can play first position riffs from forth and you will play the right notes (although not the blues scale).
Examples on a C harp:
C Major = C D E F G A B C
A minor (Aeolian) = A B C D E F G A
E minor (Phrygian Mode) = E F G A B C D E
The E minor pentatonic is E G A B D E. A minor pentatonic is A C D E G A. Those are all notes that are "right there" in the C Major scale too. All three of those scales have the exact same notes.
Long story short, on the bottom of the harp, you can hit the correct minor pentatonic notes in E and A. What makes 5th work better in the bottom is the flat 5. That would be a Bb. The Eb needed in 4th is hard to hit without an overblow in the first two octaves.
Again, I have NOT tried playing this song at all. Listening again, I think I hear 3', which would lend itself to being in 1st or 5th. What made me think 4th right away was the high end solo with what might be the 8'. At any rate, it could readily be 1st Minor, but there is no fun in going with the obvious answer, lol.
Technically, and I am not saying he is doing this, he might be playing first in his mind, but using a harp that would put him in 5th.
Not only can I do it with my ear, I don't even need to listen to the tune. Of course I've been listening to it for 18 years and have heard it live countless times.
Ab minor Ab harp in first position. No Harp switching at all
I'm not saying Rod doesn't know 5th position but I've never heard him play it. Why would he when he can say all he wants to say in 1st? Also when this tune was first recorded on "So Glad To Have the Blues" in 1986 or so there was no Low E.
It's a nice traditional Blues harp with a twist approach. Probably most influenced by Horton's "Hard Hearted Woman" and his work on Otis Rush's Cobra sides.
