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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Amp questions
Amp questions
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phogi
99 posts
Oct 24, 2009
3:07 AM
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As I read old posts, it seems most harp player use a combo amp and very few or none use a speaker cabinet and a separate amp. I understand the convienience factor would be higher with a combo amp, but, I was wondering: Is there a difference in sound? Say, if you buy a bassman head and plug into a bassman cab, will it sound the same as both in a combo amp? My intuition tells me there would not be much difference, perhaps only from the acoustic chamber being a touch different.
Also: I will prob never be able to afford the kind of amp I want. I'm considering a build, for cost reasons. (I also like to make things, but really, I have more time than I do money.)Suppose I try to build a 4x10 50 watt tube amp, how does the cost compare to buying a used one?
I see alot of Fender Deluxe reverb's on my local craiglist, and a bud of mine has one...harp sounds pretty goo, but bit hot. Anyone out there use this amp for gigging?
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LIP RIPPER
126 posts
Oct 24, 2009
3:52 AM
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I have the Epiphone valve jr. head. It has 4,8 & 16 ohm ouputs for a variety of speakers. I bought a 10" 1959 alnico speaker and built a cabinet out of birch plywood that looks and sounds great. In fact I have my drawings of the cabinet somewhere that I'd share if you're interested. I drafted it out and used one 4' piece of plywood.
LR
Last Edited by on Oct 24, 2009 3:53 AM
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Kingley
461 posts
Oct 24, 2009
4:13 AM
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It can be more expensive to build your own amp unless you really know what you're doing. You can however buy some good amp kits from Weber or Mojotone that have everything you need. But you may have to still modify them to make them suitable for harp.
Why not buy a secondhand bassman and then perform some modifications to it if necessary to get it to sound how you want.
I'd avoid buying a Deluxe if it's the newer models (1990's-present day) as they don't make good harp amps at all.
If you really want to build an amp then I would try something like a 5F1 or 5F2 circuit as these are much simpler and a good place to begin learning how to build amps. Of course they are not 4X10 50 watt amps. But they still make great harp amps.
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GamblersHand
92 posts
Oct 24, 2009
5:14 AM
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@phogi - I would really suggest thinking about a smaller amp. Partly it's the schlepping around, partly if it's a bluesy overdriven sound you want, then you want to get that sound at low volume - otherwise you might not be able to get it at all unless you're playing a large venue.
Maybe consider something more similar to a Fender Champ or Pro Jumior?
I use a 7W Marble Max (based on a Champ design) which is portable and gets a great sound at pretty much any volume. It's got a line out (or I can use a mic) for medium or large venues.
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nineveh_harp
7 posts
Oct 25, 2009
8:54 AM
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The tone difference is non-existant if you use the SAME speaker(s) in the separate cab. I prefer the head/cab configuration as combo amps' speakers have a tendency to rattle the tubes inside when they heat up... especially EL84s. It takes a couple months for it to start happening, but once they start to rattle, you'll be able to hear it through the speaker... a recording nightmare! This is why I prefer the head/cab thing. Plus, then you can mix/match with different cabs. I've NEVER had a tube rattle in a head... even @ high high volumes (10 on a 100w Marshall with 4 75w speakers). Epiphone Valve Jr. is a good amp, but I like it better with a 12" Celestion Vintage 30. It smooths out the treble and has a silky midrange and the low end is nice and round... just what I like for harp, but that's just my personal preference.
Last Edited by on Oct 25, 2009 8:57 AM
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LittleJoeSamson
98 posts
Oct 25, 2009
9:21 AM
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I like the head/cab configuration, too. If the place to play is small, I can just put the head on top of the speaker. One can turn the cab with the speaker facing backwards, and by using a "M" screen at the back, can actually make it sound fuller.
Using multiple cabs ( matching impedance ) is also an option.
There's also something pleasing with having an enclosed speaker I notice...a warmth even at more volume.
With my open back combo unit, I would often have to put foam around the sides and top when in small quarters due to the proximity of other bandmates...especially the drummer.
This is no longer a problem.
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mrdon46
13 posts
Oct 25, 2009
8:17 PM
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phogi--to answer your original question, you probably won't save much $ --if any--building your own amp over buying a used one, or even a new amp such as a Valve Jr. (Do try before you buy though). Think about it--commercial amp builders are able to buy parts in quantity at discount. The advantage to building your own is in crafting something tailored to your style and taste, and using higher quality (and more expensive) parts than a commercially built amp may have (but with no real guarantee that it'll actually sound any better). As for that 4X10 50W harp amp, build that after you've owned and built a few smaller, simpler amps, if you still want to. As a previous poster suggested, a Valve Jr is a great starter amp, the cheapest thing you're going to find at the quality level it provides, and you can get some hands-on experience modifying it if you like following the suggestions on the Lone Wolf web site.
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RockinBob61
3 posts
Oct 26, 2009
10:39 PM
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phogi,
Amps are very subjective, and the Mic/Amp combo makes a difference. Open vs. closed cabs will make a difference in sound and feedback qualities. So, you should try out amps with different mics, or your favorite if that's all you play. I've repaired as well as built my own amps before and Mrdon46 is right, you will not save any money this way. It will cost you more in the long run.
But, you don't need a big amp to get big sound. I little amp mic'd thru a PA can work just fine.
It's hard to go wrong with the old Fender Champ, or VibroChamp amps. The Valve Jr's are okay too, but do sound best if modded. Or, if you're lucky enough to find one, and can afford it, get an old Premier tube amp. Adam plays one of the Premier Twin 8's on Youtube.
One of the best harp amps ever made was the old Kalamazoo tube amp. Check with Greg Huemann from blowsmeaway.com to see if he has any he's currently selling. He fixes them and sells them. He will even customize them for you.
Also don't discount some of the little solid state amps - The Mouse that Adam sometimes uses is a pretty cool SS amp. The old Pignose battery powered amp gets a killer gritty tone as well.
Another option is to get a loud clean amp, and a Digitech RP200, RP250, or RP350, and buy Richard Hunter's patch kit. He's dialed these units in to give killer harp tone that mimics many of the great harp setups.
I've an RP200A loaded with Richard's patch kit. I use it with an Audix Fireball V mic and I can get more volume from this setup than anything else I've ever played thru! (Including my 4 x 10 Bassman) Heck, you don't even need an amp - it will plug straight into a house PA system. You can get loud enough with this setup that guitarists with 100W stacks will ask you to turn down!
Jam ON! -BB
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Bluzdude46
241 posts
Oct 27, 2009
12:05 PM
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I'm getting Old!! I would prefer to carry the Vjr Head and Cab but bottom line is it doesn't have enough power to compete with louder Blues and R&R bands. That's why I have the Bassman.
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