Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
introducing BLUES TALK: a new video series
introducing BLUES TALK: a new video series
Page:
1
2
Littoral
701 posts
Jan 02, 2013
5:46 PM
|
Bruce Iglauer's quote, as referenced by Billy Branch, was some pretty heavy shit. I am very surprised it has not been a focal point of contention. "If I'm criticized, and I assume I am, for not signing more African-American artists, the answer is: show me an African-American artist who has got a vision for where to carry some blues into the future, who is an efficient bandleader, who has their act together businesswise enough so that I can work with them, who doesn't have a significant drug or alcohol issue, and who has live charisma, and I will take that artist real seriously." http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/alligator-records-40th-anniversary/Content?oid=3834565
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2013 5:50 PM
|
shadoe42
240 posts
Jan 02, 2013
5:55 PM
|
One thing that is missing from this conversation about race and racism is the fact that hate is a learned response. Until BOTH sides decide to stop teaching hate it will never stop. My three year hates no one... she will only learn to hate or not to hate by watching me. What do I teach her? Music is the same..classical, rock, blues , its music... it should be Colorblind... the same reactions many of us white blues players get is the reactions Living Color got in the metal world, or Darius Rucker gets in the country world....
But again its all a learned response. I have lived in the south, attended a predominatly black high school, and I live here in the mid-ish west near reservations. I have seen and experienced hate in a lot of forms.
But until we all turn away and choose to not teach our children to hate. This will not end.
---------- Dr. Rev. Mr. Cheeks Miller My Electronic Music World
|
Littoral
703 posts
Jan 02, 2013
6:06 PM
|
Just hope Leo doesn't rise up and wanna take back his Tele.
|
Frank
1774 posts
Jan 02, 2013
6:07 PM
|
At the end of the day when a musician dies - it is their music that lives on and to the virginic untrained ear it is colorless, yet ladened with the brightest colors of the rainbow or the darkest shades of grey!
|
kudzurunner
3763 posts
Jan 02, 2013
7:07 PM
|
@Shag: I think you're right that "culture" is a potentially dangerous concept, when people who embrace it use it as a sort of weapon, on one of many available ways, to inflict pain on "others." When culture is an appendage to nationalisms of any sort, it can be dangerous--but it can be a necessary gambit, as it was when Larry Neal and the signatories of the Black Aesthetic tried to do some hard and needed work. In the 11th of my videos, I try to offer some critical perspective on the Black Aesthetic conflict over the meaning and function of the blues: Ron Karenga vs. Larry Neal.
In the 8th video--the one on Zora Neale Hurston an southern blues culture--I talk about Franz Boas and how he helped Hurston see the value of her native Eatonville, Fla. front-porch culture. In that case, "culture" was a great and needed thing.
|
kudzurunner
3764 posts
Jan 02, 2013
7:15 PM
|
@Littoral: It was some extremely heavy shit, and a whole lot of Chicago blues people, from every corner, weighed in; check out the LONG column of feedback on the Chicago Tribune webpage where David Whiteis's article was posted.
I'll say for the record that Whiteis, whose writing for Living Blues has long convinced me that he's one of the very best living commentators on the blues, comes off as a very classy guy. He surely knew that he had elicited a damaging, gotcha-quote from Iglauer. He presented it in the article without sensationalism. And he has taken pains, in repeated followup comments in that long feedback thread, to defend Iglauer on the merits--which is to say, he hasn't defended him or attacked him, but has instead sought to clarify the factual basis of the interview situation and make clear that some of the heat being directed at Iglauer was in excess of the statement he'd made and was instead the symptom of larger (racial) problems within Chicago blues culture. He has also, importantly, made clear that the blues, as social pain in African American communities, is alive and unwell in Chicago, and deserves our attention. Classy guy, Whiteis is. His book on Chicago blues is something every blues fan should own.
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2013 7:16 PM
|
Joe_L
2299 posts
Jan 02, 2013
8:04 PM
|
@Littoral - Bruce Iglauer's comments did stir up a bunch of shit in the blues world this past summer. As a fan of Chicago Blues, it was impossible to miss. It was all over the Internet. The firestorm on Facebook lasted for weeks. It was hard to miss, but it wasn't exactly breaking news as people have noticed a trend for the past decade or longer.
---------- The Blues Photo Gallery
|
The Iceman
629 posts
Jan 03, 2013
6:17 AM
|
Kudzu's comments on blues fests is very perceptive.
To be allowed into the true black experience (Mississippi blues fest done within that community) is a real eye opener to those of us who live outside of this group. More can be learned about a culture this way than to read opinions written about the culture.
In this current crazy world, so many answers are found if one just "Follows the Money".
It takes someone with courage to buck the commercial trend and embrace the peoples with respect who are at the core.
Here in the small GA town in which I reside, segregation and attitude still reign supreme. We had a production facility/store front on the main street of a little southern town that wants to grow and become a destination. Only 4 other businesses in an area that all the white business owners have been saying for years is "a cute area with great potential to become a destination".
Problem is that the other business owners still are prejudiced against black and foreigners with dark skin (India Indian, middle east, etc). The residue is so thick in their establishments that it can be felt by these other cultures. Our store was always wide open and accepting of everyone.
What we found were many black folks coming into our store complaining about how they were treated across the street. Now, most of these black folk were dressed down or casually. The funny thing is, some of these people had more money than the dressed up white folk who visited the town, although at first glance you wouldn't know it. They also were no dummies. End result....they spent a lot of their money with us, would come back as repeat customers, but would avoid the other businesses (who were constantly complaining about the lack of income money flow they experienced).
So, the prejudiced business owners continue to shoot themselves in their feet and wonder how come they are still hobbling around.
The upside is that, after 3 years, we have moved our store out of this tiny town over to the next county where the attitudes are not so stifling to people, leaving the good ol' southern white boys to their little town which still struggles to become a destination. They just don't seem to "get it" and we certainly can't educate those that don't wish to learn.
This tiny town resides in Macintosh County, GA, which has the esteemed reputation of being one of the last counties in the country to still live under pre-civil rights mentality - amongst both the white AND black population. It was also the last county in the US to have been run by a corrupt sheriff - right up through the 1970's. If anyone has seen the the Billy Bob Thornton movie called "Badge", the opening scenes regarding the capsized truck is lifted directly from real events that happened here in Macintosh county. Only difference in the movie is that the truck ran off the road because someone ran out of the woods in front of it, while the reality of this event was that the sheriff arranged "accidents" along HWY 17 to make the trucks run off the road.
I find it fascinating as well as somewhat sad. A book called "Praying for Sheetrock" is a fascinating read and a true story regarding these years. ---------- The Iceman
|
Littoral
704 posts
Jan 03, 2013
7:37 AM
|
Iceman, one day we'll cross paths and have some fun. I've been playing some of those rural neighborhoods, most recently a little west of Waycross. The entrenched attitudes are real and absolutely in my neighborhood, Panacea Florida. Gotta add, "...the last county in the US to have been run by a corrupt sheriff." That quaint southern charm got to you too?
|
MN
220 posts
Jan 03, 2013
9:31 AM
|
There's so many layers involved with playing the blues as a white person. It's like walking a tight-rope, with blues lovers of all stripes down below throwing things at you, trying to protect what they see as theirs.
Are we authentic enough, or are we just aping the real deal?
Are we too reverential to the artists who came before us, or too dismissive?
Do we sing with soul, or are we "trying to sound black?"
Do we play with heart, or are we too technical?
Do these shades look cool, or do I look like an idiot? Does this bowling shirt make me look fat?
Sometimes I really envy country harp players. No one questions their right to blow.
|
TetonJohn
41 posts
Jan 03, 2013
9:30 AM
|
Just got an email advertising this DVD; seemed strangely timely.
Hillbilly Blues
|
The Iceman
632 posts
Jan 03, 2013
9:42 AM
|
MN:
I posted this link in another topic, but here is what I call a great answer to your question regarding white people playing the blues....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwZ5K2QCGew
Littoral: I am about 45 -50 minutes east of Waycross. ---------- The Iceman
|
Frank
1784 posts
Jan 03, 2013
3:19 PM
|
"If I'm criticized, and I assume I am, for not signing more African-American artists, the answer is: show me an African-American artist who has got a vision for where to carry some blues into the future, who is an efficient bandleader, who has their act together businesswise enough so that I can work with them, who doesn't have a significant drug or alcohol issue, and who has live charisma, and I will take that artist real seriously."
When Bruce sez (show me) ...Wouldn’t that be fairly easy to do? I would imagine that there are tons of Black Blues performers/bands that could take him up on the gauntlet he has thrown down. Doubt if they’d want to be apart of his world though!
|
blueswannabe
167 posts
Jan 03, 2013
5:37 PM
|
Igluaer's quote was very unfortunate. It was clearly thoughtless. I assume that has he signed many African American Blues Artists before. Would he not be willing to sign them up today, in spite of his ludicrous comment? I'm sure as a businessman he would if he saw a chance of making a profit as well as bringing quality music to his label. His comment is broadly stated but it was clearly narrowly construed. A sit down and a sincere apology might go a long way to mend this damage to the benefit of everyone. Maybe, what we are seeing is the beginning of that dialogue.
|
timeistight
1017 posts
Jan 03, 2013
5:57 PM
|
Igluaer already responded to his critics:August 23, 2011
To Whom It May Concern:
I have received some strong criticism about an interview quote from the May 19 Alligator Records story in The Reader. My words, as they have been construed, do not reflect either my beliefs or the history of my label. They have been taken out of context, and therefore they have been misunderstood and misinterpreted.
This is the context – my quoted comment was in response to a question about Alligator’s recent signings of certain non-traditional, blues-influenced white artists like JJ Grey and Anders Osborne, rather than signing black soul-blues artists. The interviewer, who is a nationally-known blues writer, of course knows my 40-year commitment to signing black artists and promoting their careers. That was clearly understood between us. I didn’t think it needed to be stated. I was asked a question specifically about what I was looking for in African-American artists I might sign, and I answered that specific question. Of course my answer applies to ALL artists that I would consider for Alligator. But that’s not what I was asked.
Apparently it sounded to some people like I was suggesting that I have different standards for African-American artists than for other artists. In fact, as the entire history of the label shows, it is my PREFERENCE to sign African-American artists. Blues, no matter who performs it, is ultimately and historically a creation of Black Americans. Alligator’s legacy is proudly a legacy of recording primarily African-American artists—over 160 albums by African-American artists and about half that many by Caucasian artists.
Of course I don’t want ANY artists who don’t behave professionally or lack charisma or aren’t good bandleaders or have substance abuse issues. That is what I meant and could have said more clearly. But I absolutely DID NOT SAY (or “suggest,” as my critics state) that Black artists were less professional, less charismatic, less good band leaders or more prone to substance abuse. Some people (who apparently don’t know the history of Alligator Records and the artists I have chosen for the label) took it that way. I’m sorry if they were offended by my choice of words.
To accuse me of “racial insensitivity,” based on a few poorly expressed words in one interview, is simply ridiculous, and I am deeply angered and saddened by it. For 40 years, Alligator Records has publicly and privately championed Black blues artists. Alligator has set the standard for labels for ethical, fair, professional and businesslike artist-label relations, honoring both the letter and spirit of its contracts with all the musicians we’ve signed.
(more to come)
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2013 6:02 PM
|
timeistight
1018 posts
Jan 03, 2013
5:58 PM
|
In addition, through the Blues Community Foundation, which I founded and endowed in 1994, I have assisted blues musicians and their families in times of personal crisis. This includes helping with costs of health care, rent, and, sadly, funerals. Many of these musicians had no relationship with Alligator, and some I never even met. I have done this quietly, without publicizing it, to support and help the people who create the music I love.
If my decades of actions on behalf of the blues and its creators don’t speak loud and clear, then some people are choosing not to listen.
I regret that only five musicians have had the courtesy to reach out and communicate with me about this interview and ask for clarification. Those who wrote the “petition” that is being circulated were not among them. They have finally just responded to repeated outreach from me, more than a month after making this a public issue, and before directly contacting me to ask for any explanation or to engage in any dialogue.
The blues is a music that reaches a tiny percentage of listeners in the U.S. and worldwide, in spite of its enormous influences on all other American music. The last thing we who love the blues need to be doing is to be attacking one another. I regret that a few misunderstood words have stirred such controversy in the community of blues lovers. Only by uniting and working together can we bring this wonderful musical tradition to a larger audience and assure its healthy future.
Most sincerely
Bruce Iglauer
----------
They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. Charlie Parker
|
Frank
1791 posts
Jan 03, 2013
6:18 PM
|
This is'nt great news either, from same article...
Contrary to certain utopian predictions, the rise of the DIY imperative that's accompanied the decline in record sales hasn't resulted in a brave new world of opportunity for musicians—at least not for musicians who aren't healthy, financially unencumbered twentysomethings (no kids, no aging parents, no mortgage) who can live on the money they eke out from near-constant touring (and whatever job near-constant touring allows them to hold down at home).
"The blues musician almost certainly doesn't have health insurance," Iglauer says. "He doesn't have any retirement, has no income if he gets sick, and no social safety net whatsoever. Most bands are prepared to drive 300 to 500 miles between gigs. So you're talking about driving anywhere from seven to 12 hours and then playing for three sets, and then sleeping for six hours and doing it again—if you're lucky enough to have gigs two nights in succession and not [have] Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday off . . . sitting in a motel and watching the money from Friday, Saturday, and Sunday drain away."
(If I read that correctly, Blues musicians are NUTS - no matter what color they is!)
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2013 6:21 PM
|
Littoral
706 posts
Jan 03, 2013
7:37 PM
|
I referenced Iglauer's comments because I thought they were relevant to the topic. The link was the primary reference for the information. Thanks for the suggestion to review the feedback in the Chicago Tribune. My assumption is that the primary venue for this conversation is intended to be Adam's Blues Talk Forum.
|
gene
1115 posts
Jan 03, 2013
10:41 PM
|
Race, race, race, race, race... I've read this thread (and many others like it), I skimmed through the synposium.
Metaphorically speaking, I'll just stand outside and listen to the MUSIC through the door. I have no interest in entering into this racial tension-filled "blues culture." It stinks to high heaven. Just give me the music; to hell with the rest.
|
apskarp
609 posts
Jan 04, 2013
7:23 AM
|
I have friend who is partly native american origin. He has told me that native americans have also had their share on developing the musical culture we call the blues today. It would be interesting to hear an academic view on this topic...
---------- Hoodoo Sauna
|
blueswannabe
168 posts
Jan 04, 2013
10:30 AM
|
thanks for posting IglauerS respone. thats a dam good apology. and it sounds very sincere and i bet very accurate. too bad this statement was not read into the record. as we can see. the basis of most conflict. miunderstandings! i agree with him on working together. thats why i ask once again what was the end game about that lecture or any lecture on this topic.
Last Edited by on Jan 04, 2013 10:48 AM
|
Post a Message
|