CarlA
204 posts
Dec 20, 2012
8:07 PM
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I was Recently at a jam with a very powerful amp. I had the amp plugged into a power strip where about 5 other musicians had their amps/ gear plugged into. They were loud!! I could hear barely anything from my amp!!?
Plugged the amp into a power receptacle outside the bar, amp is loud as can be. This morning amp rattled the windows in my house.
Could the power strip that I plugged into be the problem? If so, why was everybody else loud except for me?? I am going home to cry now :(
-Carl
Last Edited by on Dec 20, 2012 8:08 PM
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Jehosaphat
386 posts
Dec 20, 2012
8:31 PM
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This is a very common problem with us Harp players.You plug her in at home and she near blows the windows out.
mmm gotta be good for that jam or gig.
So you get there plug in and can't hear hardly a thing outta her.
Whaat!
Same size amp as the guitarists? They will still win because they have a much larger sonic level to play at before feedback kicks in.
I'm sure a lot of us on the MBH have been there.
It definitely is not caused by the power strip.
What Amp were you using?
Last Edited by on Dec 20, 2012 8:33 PM
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Greg Heumann
1903 posts
Dec 20, 2012
9:04 PM
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please define "very powerful amp".
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/Greg
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jbone
1140 posts
Dec 21, 2012
3:59 AM
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it's not even really about power until it gets too loud for my ears on stage. at that point either you've run the audience off or you're playing an arena.
Adam has a video where he lines up 5 amps of different power, speaker configs, and FREQUENCIES. key word. his Premier Twin 8, while not the loudest, CUTS THROUGH the best. at least from what i saw.
this also has a lot to do with what mic you use with what amp.
i have been exactly where you were at the other night. there are a few ways you can react: trust that whether or not you hear yourself, your sound is getting out front. tip the amp back against a wall and stand closer. mic to p.a. if possible. use one of those little mic stand mounted monitors next to your poor ear. possibly the best solution- and the most unattainable- is to get the band to all turn down by about 1/3. unfortunately ego enters this realm and makes that mostly impossible at least in my experience.
one of my best band experiences was an outfit that we all had 25 watts or less, we set our amps in front of us, tipped back and facing us like monitors, and miked everything through the p.a. we all heard each other and the sound got out to the audience as well.
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5F6H
1461 posts
Dec 21, 2012
4:43 AM
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Hi Carl,
Yes, it is very likely that the power strip was the problem. It can be much more noticable with more powerful amps as they make bigger demands on the wall AC due to larger power transformers and heater current capacity. If a number of amps are plugged into the same 4 way it can create a current bottleneck, pulling down your voltages, especially the high current heaters and your amp will lose punch & go muddy & splatty.
Counter-intuatively, a small amp may have suffered less in this instance. Guitar has a more dynamic demand on the PT, very short periods of high current demand, longer periods of sustain with less current...with harp, all the time you are blowing you are making large demands on the PT, so you suffer worse, even though this does affect guitar players too.
A borderline biased amp may also be dragged down to the point where there is not enough plate current to sustain long notes.
It is always a good idea to avoid sharing multi-way AC blocks whenever you can, buy a long, heavy duty, single point extension cord and find your own wall AC socket (not always possible I grant you). The multi-way is fine for low current devices like stomp boxes & small amps.
I have seen players, with whom I am very familiar with, and been able to tell from the amp sound & without looking, that they are all sharing multi-way AC strips ...sometimes you can work round it, othe times not. If the layout of the stage & number of AC outlets in a particular venue prevents you from getting your own outlet, make a note & maybe take a smaller amp next time, that is just about capable of the job, rather than the big amp that might be overkill.
I used to find that in some scenarios a bassman would work just fine and a Twin would sound like a broken radio.
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CarlA
205 posts
Dec 21, 2012
5:06 AM
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@gregh
It's a HG 50 1210
@5f6h
This explainations makes lots of sense. Because with my hg2 and double trouble, even in a LOUD jam scenario, I could be "heard", but without any real presence without using line-out or PA. So I was extremely surprised when the hg 1210 couldn't be heard standing right in front of the amp(ie: my ear right against the speaker grill cloth!!!!)
Could this be possibly due to any of the tubes "going bad" or needing to be replaced?
-Carl
Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2012 5:08 AM
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5F6H
1462 posts
Dec 21, 2012
5:33 AM
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"Could this be possibly due to any of the tubes "going bad" or needing to be replaced?
-Carl"
My gut feeling is that this is unlikely, if the multiway was the issue then the tubes would not have been under stress/overworked.
Preamp tubes usually have to be replaced because they go noisy, they draw very little current and rarely fail in the mechanical sense.
Power tubes would have to be biased crazy high to fade out in the course of a set or two (if you have means to check the bias it's worth doing so, but if the amp/tubes is fairly new I doubt you have an issue) and the grey/black plates would visibly glow red/orange signifying that they were burning up (don't worry about any gassy blue/purple glow, or little yellow dots of light, this is normal). Power tubes usually stay good for several years in an amp used regularly for harp.
Rectifiers tend to fail suddenly and take fuses with them, this didn't happen, so I doubt this is an issue.
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Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2012 5:34 AM
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HarpNinja
3020 posts
Dec 21, 2012
5:40 AM
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I had a 1210 and it was the loudest amp I had every owned. I played large clubs with it on 3-4. I opened it up once outdoors to like 7 and turned it down as it was too loud for me on a huge stage.
IME, that amp can be used for very loud stage volumes. My bet is the power strip.
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Custom Harmonicas
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Littoral
683 posts
Dec 21, 2012
5:49 AM
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This is an especially likely issue for us harp players because we often set up and plug in after the main outlets are used up. The load on the strip is intuitive but I don't recall seeing it spelled out before. Thanks 5F6H.
I can recall trying to diagnose these symptoms,resolving it, but not being sure what the actual issue was.
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CarlA
206 posts
Dec 21, 2012
9:13 AM
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"If a number of amps are plugged into the same 4 way it can create a current bottleneck, pulling down your voltages, especially the high current heaters and your amp will lose punch & go muddy & splatty."
This is exactly how the amp sounded/acted! It sounded like the amp was inside a large, sealed glass enclosure. NO punch whatsoever and it sounded very splatty, almost like the speakers were torn
Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2012 9:15 AM
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