arzajac
52 posts
Oct 01, 2009
4:47 PM
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I just got Rocket Number 9. First time listener and I think it's awesome. I love the sound; it's jazzy without being over the top and out-there. The harp really stands out.
I know from youtube videos and such that he uses customized harps. What tuning does he use? Is it Equal Temperament like an out-of-the-box Golden Melody or some custom tuning?
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jonsparrow
1135 posts
Oct 01, 2009
5:59 PM
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im pretty sure they are what ever joe spiers tunes them too. he uses joe spiers harps. i donno if he requested a differnt tuning though. an if im correct joe tunes his harps to the way the prewar marine bands where tuned. but dont quote me on this i could be wrong.
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Gwood420
39 posts
Oct 01, 2009
8:09 PM
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open the album booklet and read it... at the end of the song descriptions are the key and position he uses... if yours doesnt have it, let me know i doubt he would care if i posted em...
Last Edited by on Oct 01, 2009 8:10 PM
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jonsparrow
1138 posts
Oct 01, 2009
8:11 PM
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i dont think thats what hes asking.
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Gwood420
40 posts
Oct 01, 2009
8:17 PM
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i get it, but (and forgive my ignorance) but isnt ""key of a minor: g harp 3rd position" tell you the tuning is normal..
sorry, i get confused with all this tuning/key/position stuff.. im starting to get it thanks to you guys but....
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harpwrench
85 posts
Oct 01, 2009
8:43 PM
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I tune Jason's harps to 19-limit just. There is one instrumental he plays in 12th position with Shawn that he needed a B harp tuned to equal temperament.
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
260 posts
Oct 01, 2009
9:48 PM
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Joe can speak, of course, way better than I about how Jason's harps are tuned, but I thought I'd add something, he likes the draw plate tuned at A=445 and the blow plate at A=442.
The absolute truth is, it is so hard for Jason to maintain a working set of harmonicas, both with the way he plays and the unbelieveable schedule of his, it is almost impossible to keep up that momentum on a gig case of harps. What I mean by that is, at certain times, God knows what he's playing.
And, of course, he's human like the rest of us. All our tastes change over time. I remember two years ago, he was the side vent's No. 1 fan. Fairly recently, we got back on the subject and he's not so much into side vents for onstage playing.
Hey, you need to get Done with the Devil, I think it's a good bit better than Rocket No. 9...
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www.elkriverharmonicas.com
Last Edited by on Oct 01, 2009 9:49 PM
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Andrew
637 posts
Oct 01, 2009
10:37 PM
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I prefer Rocket.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, in total agreement with Elk, that some of you make tuning more complicated than rocket science, and once you're playing blues, bending all your notes, your harp is filled with sweat and beer and tuna chunks, you have effects pedals, you have an anti-feedback pedal, what your guitarist does clashes with you, tuning just doesn't matter.
P.S. Adam does a vid where he says he sharpens the 2 draw 'cos it plays flat under the pressure of hard drawing and so forth. That's what Jason is doing, although Adam gives the impression it's more than a 3Hz difference he uses.
Last Edited by on Oct 01, 2009 11:27 PM
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jonsparrow
1142 posts
Oct 01, 2009
10:38 PM
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"he likes the draw plate tuned at A=445 and the blow plate at A=442. "
wow...now thats getting technical. what an ear he must have.
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Andrew
638 posts
Oct 01, 2009
11:24 PM
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Actually, I don't think it's as technical as it looks.
Thinking about it, 3Hz is about 3/4% difference, and a semitone is 6%, so 3Hz isn't that fine. Jason will have chosen his tuning by ear to match his embouchure and technique, and you'd have to do the same, rather than copy Jason. The numbers just make it look scientific and are a bit of an illusion to that extent. They are simply a way of objectifying/quantifying what Jason hears, so that his harp maker has something to work on.
Last Edited by on Oct 02, 2009 1:02 AM
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jonsparrow
1143 posts
Oct 01, 2009
11:45 PM
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ya thats a little beyond me at the moment.
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arzajac
53 posts
Oct 02, 2009
5:05 AM
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Thanks.
The first thing I noticed about his playing was that it sounded a lot like the typical Jazz Harp (think Howard Levy) as opposed to the typical Blues Harp (Big Walter).
But I don't like Jazzy harmonica. I just can't listen to it. Whereas Jason's stuff is more like blues with just enough of a jazz edge.
Like I said, I find the notes really stand out. I looked it up and I still don't really understand what 19 limit just intonation is.
Sounds good, though. I wonder what Big Walter would have sounded like using a similar tuning.
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Kingley
387 posts
Oct 02, 2009
5:25 AM
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"I wonder what Big Walter would have sounded like using a similar tuning. "
Just like Big Walter!
Jason's tuning is not what gives him that sound. It's Jason that gives Jason that sound.
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arzajac
54 posts
Oct 02, 2009
6:25 AM
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Of course!
But I find the harp cuts through the other instruments differently than other artists (like Big Walter and all the other classic blues harp players who played out-of-the-box instruments) and I'm thinking it's because of the tuning.
I may be wrong, of course, which is why I am asking.
I'm not about to go playing around with the tunings in the hopes that that will make me sound like Jason Ricci...
Last Edited by on Oct 02, 2009 6:26 AM
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Kingley
388 posts
Oct 02, 2009
6:42 AM
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Sorry Arzajac, I read the post wrong. I see what you mean now.
I think the reason the harp cuts better is because it's tuned slightly sharper. I use the same trick to make mine cut in the mix better.
Traditionally harps were tuned to A=440Hz. Which is standard concert pitch.
The harp though tends to sound better in the mix if it's tuned to A=444Hz, this is because when you play a reed it tends to play lower than it's tuned. For example it can be as much as 5Hz lower depending on the player.
The reason the note plays lower is because of the pressure on the reed created by the player.
This can make the harp sound a little flat in the mix.
So therefore by tuning them higher than A=440Hz. It allows the harp to sound around A=440 and it sounds better in the mix.
This "sharpness" will work whether you use 7 Limit JI, 19 Limit JI or Equal Temperament.
At least the above is what I have been led to believe.
Hopefully if that is wrong then Joe Spiers, Dave Payne or Chris Michalek will give us a correct explanation.
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MrVerylongusername
535 posts
Oct 02, 2009
7:13 AM
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Most manufacturers, including Hohner, tune harps bright these day A=443Hz or therabouts is pretty standard. The A=440 stamped on a marine band is just there to preserve the original look.
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sorin
67 posts
Oct 02, 2009
9:38 AM
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Arzajac , your feeling that Jason sounds like Levy , is because both use the harmonica chromatically , this is exactly why you have the feeling that Ricci sounds different than the typical blues player ,Jason uses some extra notes that most blues players don't use it.
And the other thing that makes Jason sound different is his extensive use of middle octave , most blues player use only the lower octave , and occasionally go to the high notes for some blow bends , but this is again from his ability to play some notes that are not available for other players that do not overblow .
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bluemoose
72 posts
Oct 02, 2009
1:46 PM
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Hi Guys:
When I saw Jason play last month in Bellingham both myself and a very knowlegable lady who also came down for the show agreed that he was sounding more and more like Carlos del Junco. Listen to "Steady Movin'" and then throw on "Done with the Devil". (Similar killer guitar as well.)
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phogi
55 posts
Oct 02, 2009
9:25 PM
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A point of clarification that may help some in understanding this thread:
Tuning (on a harp) is meant to describe the note layout of the harp - think country tuning vs. richter tuning. i.e. , changing the pitch of a reed by at least a half step.
Temperment, on the other hand, describes the subtle differences in frequency of individual notes. For example, using 'just intonation' create smooth sounding chords, while 'equal temperment' leads to chords that are a little rougher sounding. There are other temperments as well, such as 'well,' '7-limit,' and '19-limit'
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phogi
56 posts
Oct 02, 2009
9:26 PM
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This thread reminds me how much I love Jason's playing.
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
264 posts
Oct 03, 2009
12:32 AM
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Phogi is correct about how they are used. Technically, what reed is tuned to what note would be note placement. What he calls temperment would be tuning, although temperment is fine even technically.
But, what Phogi said is what everybody pretty much uses. I try to say "note placement" but I always forget and say "tuning" about 4/5 the time.
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www.elkriverharmonicas.com
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