Okay, this is just for fun. Can you tell which amp is which by the tone?
I'm not trying to fool anybody or make any kind of point. It is just interesting. I like both amps.
I set both amps up as I would for gigging. The pedal settings are identical, with a tiny bit of delay. The recording was made in my basement music room, which is about the size of a 3-car garage.
Which do you think is which, and which tone do you like better?
EQ controls could significantly alter the sound of either amp aside from its natural sound. I am listening on a computer, so I can't really tell for sure how either amp sounds.
The second sample seems to have the darker sound I prefer. I liked the 2nd cut better and I am guessing it was the Bassman RI. If I am wrong, and the Mission 32-20 was second, I am impressed and would like to hear one in person. Maybe at SPAH???
no i couldnt say which is which. through these little speakers they both sound a bit tinny, oddly enough! this is what i was trying to say to Afro Blue the other day...it doesnt matter how accurate one thinks the sound of their clip is, you cant tell how it sounds to someone else because their equipment is an unknown quantity. case in point, we just released an album and i was trying to evaluate early mixes...every rig i listened to it on sounded different...ipod, cd player, computer at work, computer at home, headphones 1, 2 and 3...combinations of different gear. ----------
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2012 2:14 AM
I would totally take number 2 assuming there was "cut" to be added as needed. It is really tough doing demos like this and comparing apples to apples. I like how Rick, from the start, made it clear he was using his own settings.
I've done things where I've tried to compare head to head by dialing them in to sound as much the same as possible. I was able to dial in a HG 1210 to sound like a DT and then show how the 1210 has more heardroom, bottom end, etc. ---------- Custom Harmonicas
Mike, good ear. The Kinder and delay settings are identical on both amps (minimal). Standard gig settings on the amps: you know, cut the treble and boost the bass, etc. I used same mic with the same vol level for both. They were recorded seconds apart. My GF's 20 year-old son was there (a rock guitarist) and he thought it was funny. He's been to my shows and heard both amps dozens of times.
@Rick "I admit one of the amps may have been EQ'd way wrong for the room. I just used my standard gig settings. It was pretty loud, with the Bassman on 4."
OK about turn, #1 is the Mission. ---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
Its hard to tell what the amps can do with such a limited scope of playing. I can tell more if the player TB' s some chords, worbles, chugging etc. Also, I would not used the "boxes" as they react differently to different amps and need to be dialed in specifically.
My guess, for what it's worth, RI is #2.
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2012 8:59 AM
I love this video and relish in how many variables there are that can effect overall sound.
I can totally see how easy it is to obsess over what you hear from your perspective as the player. I went years undecided about what I really wanted from my gear effected tone. Now I hardy care at all and just go between some level of clean to some difference in dirty, lol. I've found that my gear choices vary so much by mood that chasing a single tone is useless...as nothing sounds the same day to day than the player.
I do know, though, that I don't like the telephone-type tone. ---------- Custom Harmonicas
Love this kind of shit - you know I do, - but this is a fools game. If we could see (or you'd tell us) the settings on each amp -um, - we'd still fuck it up. What speaker configuration in the Mission, 1) 12" ?
Niether sounds like my Bassman in this clip anyway.
50 second snip from recent jam - close mic'd on the lil buddy I put in thanks to you Rick. tone sample
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2012 10:43 AM
6SN7, I just KNEW somebody would find a way to criticize my playing. LOL. Tell me... how exactly would that help you tell which amp is which? Answer: It wouldn't. I used the same lame licks on both amps. Listen to the amps, not the player.
I didn't take it as criticism, we can tell a bit more by listening for the difference tones. All bets are off but my guess RI is #2 solely based on how the amp sounded during one very short chord near the beginning of that clip. ---------- Custom Harmonicas
(The Mission amp is the original prototype for the 32-20 line, so that it why is has all the stick-on labels and funky controls. I kind of like it that way.)
Edited to add: I didn't realize the Bassman was all the way up on 5. But remember, it is tubed down a bit with 5751, 12AU7, 5751. And some circuit mods. And two speakers are not original. So yeah, it's not really a Bassman as you might expect.
I bet you guys will get it now. I'll end the puzzle in a few minutes.
The first clip is the Mission amp, the second is the Bassman RI.
I think I jinxed the Bassman by having it too loud for the room and not EQing it better. This was just a quick fun thing I did instead of moving boxes around. We just bought a house and moved in last weekend.
Rick - I've gotten similar criticism on some of my past comparisons because of the duration of the clip. It is only 50 seconds. That isn't a lot of time. It wasn't a criticism is quality. More like one of quantity.
It would be interesting to see how different they would sound, if you altered the EQ settings.
Bassman sounded awful.No cut whatsoever.Just like you were playing through a thick blanket.
For max loudness and great tone try :- the presence and the middle on 12, the bass on 3 max, and the treble 0 to 3. Try the standard pre-amp setup too.
For lower volumes, turning the bass up to 5 max warms it up.
I have to believe that both these amps sounds much much better then in the recordings. To be honest the recording make both amps sound thin and I dont hear much bass at all. I've even heard some recordings by Very good pro players sounding thin. It is the nature of recording I guess.
Yep, in a basement with concrete floor and walls I knew I would get less than optimal sound. My thinking was to show the differences between the two amps even under less than ideal conditions. It was not to show both at their best. Sorry if that is what it seemed I was after. It was not a contest.
Still, I thought the project was interesting, and with all the problems with the playing and recording I think most listeners still had it right as soon as they heard it.
For whatever reason, I think the Mission amp suffered less from the environment. I also think the Bassman got hurt by the perception of the Mission being so colorful. When listening to the Bassman by itself it sounds good, at least to me. I think the "covered by blanket" impression is enhanced by it being heard a few seconds after the brighter Mission amp.
Ditto all the above but i have to say that based on the above demo and other U tube ones I'd rather have a Mission Amp. Just more tonal variety available i think. I have to qualify this by saying that i have never heard,nor played through, either of them live. Basically i think that both of them are great amps. Horses for courses and all that i suppose.
I expected the bassman to have the bigger sound. When you said it was up loud I thought that had to be the more clipped sound. But I don't know I've ever heard a mission amp, and though I've heard plenty of recorded bassman amps, the relatively muffled sound completely threw me...ah well, good game I think ----------
I'll do it again sometime when I can take more time with it. As many of you know, I am absolutely fascinated with amp tone, and the different nuances between amps. (Yes, yes, yes, I know.... It's all about the player blah blah.) Amps DO have a character and sound of their own. I like to try to define and document those differences in ways that are meaningful for blues harp players. I'm not sure I achieved that in this little test. It'll get better next time.
You are incorrect Rick in your assumption that I was critiquing or criticizing your playing.
Rick, you have mentioned several factors that made this a less than optimal A/B test.
Please consider what I said regarding your playing in the same vein of that and that doing those things would have been helpful in identifying the two amps.
Further, those are the things I would have done if it was me testing any amp. Blowing a TB 1/4 chord is going to tell you plenty about an amp. Those are things I mentioned are things I employ when I play and especially when I am testing or doing an A/B test, as I imagine many others also do. Some others might do overblows and some other techniques that I don't do.
So, I have to respectfully disagree with your statement that using those technique would not have helped me identifying the amp.
Last Edited by on Dec 17, 2012 8:26 AM
I don't think either amp was where the could be in the given space.
Not talking about play style or skill I am strictly talking about dialing in the amps to their ideal settings for the purpose of the demo. I know a bassman can blow that tone out of the water and I can only assume the mission would blow out its own performance here. I wouldn't buy either amp based on this video.
Kinder should not be included in a head to head comparison unless you do a demo of each amp with and without. A kinder colors tone to a huge degree and despite its simple layout and recomended settings it requires alot to really get it right. I know for me that I came up with a list of settings to cover each mic I use mated to each amp I use. It's not as easy as adjusting the middle knob.
The idea is fine but as you admitted the execution is off. Spending time to dial in stuff would be so much more compelling.
One thing that holds true is most people's settings they like alone suck ass on stage and vice versa. Hell I feel really strongly most players use horrible settings in regards to mids, treble and presence then way over do bass. Not only does it sound muffled and blah it doesn't cut at all. That is one of the many problems of a harp player is competing for frequency as well as volume.
Worth noting capturing the difference in speaker mass as to pushing sound is very hard to get. A 1x12 will not fill a room the same but recorded that is less obvious. Hence part of the trouble of using a big amp in the studio as opposed to something like a champ.
Last Edited by on Dec 17, 2012 9:45 AM
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2012 2:14 AM
