KingoBad
1210 posts
Dec 09, 2012
5:26 PM
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I'm working out an arrangement for summertime. I have always naturally been drawn to playing it starting on the 7 draw (which I believe is the root).
I am playing the guitar in e minor(I hope) and am playing my "D" harp. It it the correct harp for the job, but I have no idea what position. I can only stare at the circle of fifths for so long....
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Danny
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MrVerylongusername
2445 posts
Dec 09, 2012
5:42 PM
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3rd
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timeistight
939 posts
Dec 09, 2012
5:57 PM
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The first note of Summertime is the fifth, not the root. 7 draw on a D harp is C#, so that sounds like you're playing in F# minor, not E minor. That'd be fifth position. If that's what you're doing, you'll need an overblow for the G# in bar seven.
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KingoBad
1211 posts
Dec 09, 2012
6:15 PM
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I believe that I am in e minor, so third sounds correct. It just didn't feel like I was playing in third. It will open up my playing a bit, I think, as I will incorporate some cool things into my third pos. possibilities.
I need a better way to understand the circle of fifths more intuitively.
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Danny
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SuperBee
687 posts
Dec 09, 2012
7:29 PM
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Yes, 6 draw for third. Fourth position is kinda nice too, starting on 5 blow
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Komuso
128 posts
Dec 09, 2012
8:08 PM
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@KingoBad "I need a better way to understand the circle of fifths more intuitively. "
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
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STME58
319 posts
Dec 09, 2012
10:39 PM
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@JD Hoskins,
A/Bb/B/C/Db/D/Eb/E/F/F#/G/Ab/A/Bb/B/C/Db/D/Eb/E/F/F#/G/Ab/A/Bb
Your chromatic table works if you remember there are 7 half steps in a major fifth. If you start at C (no sharps or flats) and count up 7 half steps (a major fifth) you get to G (one sharp, F#) which is the key of an C harp played in second position. Go another 7 steps and you are in D (2 sharps, F#, and C#, notice the pattern?), third position on an C harp.
Now, if you take your chromatic progression and just write down every 7th step (stepping up by major fifths);
C G D A E B F# Db Ab Eb Bb F C
You have a list where each position up is one step to the right. Each step to the right also adds one sharp or removes one flat. The flat sharp transition occurs at F#(6 sharps) which is the same as Gb(6 flats). Now if you take this list and bend it into a circle so the two Cs at the ends overlap and become one, you wont have to keep writing out the list over and over again, you can just count around the circle. Of course with either method, after a short time of using the chart extensively, you will have it memorized and will no longer need to refer to it.
I had never thought of it this way until you posted your linear chart.
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2012 11:36 PM
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rbeetsme
961 posts
Dec 10, 2012
4:24 AM
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Danny, I play that in A minor, D minor harp, 2nd position. Many play it in G, 3rd position.
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AirMojo
331 posts
Dec 10, 2012
5:45 AM
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KingoBad... I just tried it myself, starting on the 7 draw... like timesight said, you are playing in 5th position, and would need to overblow 5 blow.
Now if you have a country-tuned harp, where the 5 draw is raised a 1/2 step, you don't need any overblows. Country tuned harps are great for 5th position, otherwise you have to avoid the regular 5 draw note, and use an overblow on the 5 blow.
I like playing Summertime on a Natural Minor harp starting on 6 blow... only because that's how I learned how to play it years ago, and didn't know anything about overblows or 5th position.
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Littoral
674 posts
Dec 10, 2012
6:14 AM
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STME58, interesting.
The positions for a C harp are in order.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
C G D A E B F# Db Ab Eb Bb F
Second is enshrined in my brain so I can easily generate the list for all positions if I start at C and list 2nd position for each each successive key.
Even I can remember that, I think.
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2012 6:15 AM
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Tuckster
1213 posts
Dec 10, 2012
7:35 AM
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Ditto what Littoral said. If you're a blues player.these 2nd position keys should be committed to memory.
KingoBad- I find "Summertime" much easier to play in 3rd than in 2nd. You don't have all those tricky intonation problems.
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KingoBad
1212 posts
Dec 10, 2012
7:38 AM
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Guys, my apologies... I was playing on the rack, which felt like I was reaching up to the seven draw... It was actually the 6 when I played it off the rack. Everyone was right. Now my world is settling back into place...
JD, I really like the linear layout. That will get me further down the line for sure.. I have played non chordal instruments through school, so I seemed to have a giant hole in my education here...
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Danny
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