electricwitness
71 posts
Dec 04, 2012
9:23 AM
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During Adam's recent visit to Salt Lake City, in his workshop, he asked for volunteers to play a 12 bar progression. Several attempts where made, including myself, we all failed. It got me thinking about the mental side of playing harmonica. If I had played a 12 bar song that was familiar to me I believe I would have been fine. Instead I attempted to improvise on the spot, and buckled about half way through. When Adam asked what happened I wasn't even sure, I had just lost my place. On my drive home that night (5 hours) I practiced a lot of 12 bar blues! As I played tunes that I knew I was fine, unless I tried counting internally. I could improvise a progression if I didn't count, but then I wasn't sure if it was 12 bars or not. I tried different ways of counting but to no avail.
In the introspection of my playing, I feel that most of the time i just go on auto-pilot. If there is accompaniment, I hear what is happening and react to it, without consideration of what I am actually doing technically. My muscle memory knows what to do to create a certain sound and it just happens. I believe that if I want to make serious progress in my harp playing I need to change the way I think about my playing.
I do not have any specific questions about this, but would appreciate any feedback or thoughts on the matter.
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timeistight
930 posts
Dec 04, 2012
9:53 AM
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It's easier for harp players to get away with not knowing the changes but you need to learn them eventually.
It's easy -- even drummers can do it -- but you do have to practice it.
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harpdude61
1599 posts
Dec 04, 2012
10:06 AM
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Good stuff here. I think it is vital to take it to the next level to be able to play an improvised 12 bar tune with no backing or play-along.
You will find that some licks that sound pretty good with a band, don't fit the changes very well doing solo.
Not just about notes either. You should learn to feel the changes without actually counting, but it takes time.
Great lesson tool by Adam. Everyone should try this!
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timeistight
931 posts
Dec 04, 2012
11:04 AM
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I'm surprised that no-one at a workshop "intended for both beginners and the highly advanced" could do this. Was it mostly beginners?
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Rubes
614 posts
Dec 04, 2012
11:58 AM
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Great thread! Autopiloting is the way to go.....but by yourself you have to cover all the bases. This is where I think most people will fall off the wagon. Rhythm, percussion, melody,some vocals if you can slip em' in. I've been studying some player/singers recently,(Again!) and competently combining just those two elements (playing/singing),is challenging enough, let alone dynamically blending up an original sound with a 'few holes to let some music slip through'! It's a tough call really, Some guys make it look easy!
Now in the band situation, how easy is it for the harp player to do his bit and try to make sure he's not overplaying? A few back up vocals....and you're a hit!
So to adress the question of how to handle this on the spot scenario, think outside the box a bit and consider incorporating less exercised facets of your musical brain, and maybe go beyond the harp a little.....dosen't have to be say, just Sonny Terry whoops ( although if ya can, great!), anything to keep that vibe happening within the 12 bars, tapping, slapping, grunting, or clapping....
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6SN7
206 posts
Dec 04, 2012
12:09 PM
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That's a great lesson. Very important to do, usually the bass/guitar/keyboards role; gets you thinking . It teaches you to tell a story...
My other favorite lesson like that is play the scale (4 in, 4 out 5 in 5 out, etc) first single notes, easy enuff. Now TB the scale playing the octaves (1-4 in, 1-4 out,2-5 in, 2-5 out, etc) now we are learning...
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timeistight
932 posts
Dec 04, 2012
12:10 PM
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"Autopiloting is the way to go.....but by yourself you have to cover all the bases."
"usually the bass/guitar/keyboards role"
I don't agree. You need to be aware of the form all the time, not just when you're playing unaccompanied. If not, you're just noodling.
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HarpNinja
2947 posts
Dec 04, 2012
12:16 PM
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I would consider improvising a 12 bar blues solo fundamental to being a blues player. You should never have to think about how you're going to do that.
The inability to do so isn't really excusable. Your body's internal clock should be synced to a 12 bar blues!!!!
It is as easy as playing a call and response while keeping time with your feet. Really, truly, the 12 bar progression should be something you just know and do and NEVER have to ponder.
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HarpNinja
2948 posts
Dec 04, 2012
12:18 PM
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Auto pilot is fine. You just have to have the right tools to go on auto pilot.
Check out the book Effortless Mastery. That is exactly how you should feel about the 12 bar.
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Custom Harmonicas
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Tuckster
1202 posts
Dec 04, 2012
12:24 PM
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I agree with HarpNinja. You don't even really have to play along. Just listen to a bunch of 12 bar blues. Eventually it gets engrained and you will do it without thinking.
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Rubes
615 posts
Dec 04, 2012
1:29 PM
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Exactly guys..........."feel the changes"............."eventually it gets engrained and you will do it without thinking"........this is all part of "being aware of the form all the time"...............Autopiloting.
You need to .....AutoCo-pilot as well. ;~}
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electricwitness
72 posts
Dec 04, 2012
1:39 PM
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Great comment so far! Thank you all. Some of these comments hurt a little, but I'm ok with that because I want to grow. I sometimes have a difficult time knowing how "good" I am. I see weaknesses in my playing and strive to correct them. I suffer from the big fish in a little pond syndrome to some extent, (even though the internet and this forum have helped with that) and was very excited to attend Adam's workshop, which did it's job of sending me on another level of the journey... Being more conscious of what I am doing when I play.
The group did have a large number of beginners. I am not a beginner, I do understand 12 bar, I also play guitar and perform a bunch of 12 bar blues when I play out. I also play other progressions as well. The 12 bar blues is absolutely a foundational piece of the blues playing, but there is so much more to it. That being said I still lost the mental game that day.
Are there many of us who consciously think about the technical nature of what we are playing. I know a guitar player who says he is thinking about the intervals and the note names as he plays. I have seen him play drunk so I doubt he does this all the time! haha.
Anyway thanks again.
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smwoerner
153 posts
Dec 04, 2012
1:44 PM
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I remember seeing this same demonstration in one of Adam’s seminars. What I took away was not so much can you improvise a 12 bar blues but, can you play a 12 bar blues hitting every beat and playing the changes.
Why is this important? To me it’s important if I want to jam with another musician. If we’re doing a shuffle I can now play the rhythm while the guitar player or other harp player solos. I play the changes so the other player knows where we’re at.
I think one of the things that has helped my playing the most over the past month is spending a little practice time playing an 8 and 12 bar patterns in repetition, non-stop for 5 and six minutes at a time. You quickly find out if you have facial, neck or shoulder tension when you play. I suggest everyone take a simple 12 bar shuffle or boogie pattern and repeat it for 3 to 5 minutes. It sounds easy but, without being able to throw in any warbles or long blow and draw notes it’s a workout.
Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2012 1:44 PM
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arzajac
909 posts
Dec 04, 2012
6:16 PM
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Could what happened had more to do with playing in an unfamiliar situation such as playing in front of people rather than not knowing the 12 bar changes? The same thing has happened to me and it's humbling to be brought back down to not even being able to play the fundamentals because your facing something new.
It's fine to say that you can feel the changes rather than count them, but sometimes you are shell-shocked and can't feel much of anything. I would think the solution there is to get over the confounding factor rather than learning to count better.
I gotten used to playing in front of people, or rather, it's less of a big deal. But there are many other things that have the same effect on me - not being able to hear myself in a way I am used to, singing into a mic, playing a familiar song at someone else's preferred tempo, etc...
I reckon it's just a matter of plugging away bit by bit at those elements that throw me off.
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electricwitness
73 posts
Dec 04, 2012
10:06 PM
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@smwoerner
I agree, and I am going to try your practice technique.
@arzajac
There was definitely some different pressure in that situation, which I am sure had an impact. However, I still had issues playing it alone with no one else around. You are correct anything can be overcome with practice. :)
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timeistight
933 posts
Dec 05, 2012
1:06 AM
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Do you get lost playing guitar, too?
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Baker
253 posts
Dec 05, 2012
9:48 AM
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It's interesting that you mentioned that if you were playing a 12 bar song you knew, you thought you would have been fine.
Try improvising while keeping the melody of a 12 bar song going in your head. I find this a very useful technique when playing/improvising on songs I am unfamiliar with, or that have unfamiliar forms. It not only allows me to understand where I am in the from, it also gives a framework to improvise around which helps to make the improvisation more meaningful, musical and appropriate to the song.
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colman
212 posts
Dec 05, 2012
3:00 PM
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man ride a four beat in 1 four times,slide to 4 ,ride two times,back to 1 two times and turn around with four beat on 5,than four beat on 4,jump on 1 ,four beats than do 12th bar on 1.......start all over again...easy enough for a blues kid...learn the language ,sing the song.......
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2012 3:02 PM
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walterharp
992 posts
Dec 05, 2012
3:30 PM
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one lesson, in that situation, play a 12 bar melody you know, embellish and improv around that melody a few more rounds, play it again and you are done
fwiw when adam came to town and played a gig with the band i am in i played worse than i have in a long time.
most of the time around here nobody else can play harp as well as i can and i am not very nervous on stage, but adam made me damn nervous. not anything he did per se (other than totally tear up a set in his one man band format and make it clear that my skills are not that hot relatively speaking). so yeah the psychological aspect is pretty important.
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electricwitness
74 posts
Dec 05, 2012
9:12 PM
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@timeistight
I don't generally get lost on guitar. One situation where it can fall apart, is when I am doubling a lead line on guitar with my voice or the harp. As long as I play in unison it works, but if I try to do a harmony or a different rhythm it falls apart. However, that being said I am working on that and have been making some progress.
@walterharp
I had the opportunity to open for Adam at a gig the night before the workshop. I had a blast and felt great about my performance. It was impressive to watch Adam do his thing. It was definitely an eye opening experience just as I had hoped it would be. There where some nerves after seeing him perform and then sitting in his workshop. But I am glad that I found this weak spot, at least I know what to work on!
I heard that B.B. King never sings and plays guitar at the same time. I don't know for sure if that is true or not but I think it is related to this conversation. It's a mullti-tasking thing like drummers who can sing and keep time, every limb is doing something different then add the mouth in top if that. Your mind has to be in a certain space to pull that off.
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