In response to numerous inquiries at SPAH last week. I would like to open a discussion on half-valving diatonics. If you have a specific question perhaps I can answer it.
Welcome to the forum, PT! would you mind explaining how valves work on a diatonic and exactly what effects and benefits you get from using them? Thanks.
Sure....by placing a valve over the opposite reed slot we are trying to manipulate we can do additional blow and draw bends. For instance, by putting a valve over the 6th hole draw reed slot we can now blow bend hole 6 to get the major 7th. Likewise, if we place a valve over the 7th hole blow reed slot we can now draw bend hole 7. The end result is the same as learning over blows except that this is a technique that most diatonic harmonica players already possess. The term half valving refers to the fact that we put a valve over the first 6 draw reed slots and the last four blow reed slots. That totals 10 valves out of a possible 20, or half. While some of the valves produce a half step bend that is already on the harmonica, (i.e. 4th hole blow bend is the same as 3 draw) the ability to shade or round off every note on the diatonic gives the instrument increased emotional content.
If I had to say there was any disadvantage (although it does not bother me for my style) it would be that it slightly changes the sound of the diatonic since air is not always passing over two reeds as on a un-valved harmonica. The clip I included above is with a valved harmonica. Most people would not hear a difference. I think the advantages which I outlined earlier outweigh this one small tone change.
As far as making your own...if you want to experiment with a half valved harmonica...I would get some plastic windsavers from Seydel or Hohner and put it on a C harmonica and see how you like it before going overboard. Half Valving should appeal to melody players who want to have access to all the notes, and anyone who is proficient at bending to pitch.
Welcome to the forum,PT. I assume what you did on that video is not possible(or a lot harder) on a standard diatonic? Do you have to change the way you play? I know Suzuki makes a valved Promaster. Is there a certain brand you recommend?
I just called Hohner for windsavers and they charge $25 plus $9 shipping--that's a little rich for me for an experiment. Does anyone have any DIY suggestions for making them yourself?
$25.00!!!! Really! About 3 years ago it was $3.00 for a bag full. All you had to do was cut to length. Check with Seydelusa.com and see if Rupert will sell you some. Seydel will also valve any diatonic you buy from them. So if you want a new harp this may be of interest to you. Actually I love this idea cause' you can buy one of their $35.00 harmonicas and have them valve it for about $12.00 and there you go.
I like the standard diatonic better for half valved playing than the XB-40. Although the XB-40 has valves in it, it's more complicated than that. It has enabler reeds which are set to a 0 gap besides valves. All that aside I don't like the size or the tone and it's way to easy to bend past the desired note. Just my humble opinion.
Your assessment of it sounding more chromatic like is also a view that I share. I believe it brings the diatonic and chromatic closer together in tone. The tongue at least in my case has nothing to do with it. I am primarily a pucker player.
I would imagine that someone could pull this off on a regular diatonic in some position (3rd maybe) It can also be done with overblows. I did not change my technique of playing at all. I tell people all the time that if they can blow bend holes 8, 9, and 10 then just use that same technique and use it on blow notes 5 & 6. The valves make it possible to achieve this. I have also said all along that there is no magic bullet and you need to be a good bender of notes with good intonation to really take advantage of this technique. in addition to the promaster from Suzuki, Seydel will half valve and diatonic that they sell. Visit www.seydelusa.com
Having a couple of Chroms I find that valves give me lots of problems sticking & popping ie I would presume the same problems still exist for a valved diatonic?
Whenever I play my chroms I always warm them up first, which at times is a real hassle, otherwise with sticking and popping they become unplayable.On advice received from Brendan Power I trimmed the outside windsavers and this made the Suzuki playable but only after warming it up.
On the question of valves some years ago I purchased a packet (100's) from Bill Romel at Customcraft Harmonicas 8524 Summer Vista Ave. Las Vegas, Nevada 89145. From memory the valves didn't cost very much. I have yet to use them so I will try some on a diatonic.
Knowing PT has forced me to learn how to play with Valves. I don't know which method makes you a bigger nut - overblowing or valves - but I do know that PT sounds fantastic and overall the sound is more even than using OBs.
I'm pretty adept at playing with valves but I can't play as quickly as I can using OBs. I don't know if it's a limitation of the valve technique or MY limitation with the valve technique.
Tone wise I think it's the superior method but it seems to be the more difficult method of playing chromatically
Yes, plastic valves in diatonics are subject to the same moisture, temperture, and noise issues as chromatics. That's why people are always experimenting with new materials. I use something called ultrasuede that seems to work great. It can be had at a fabric store. Go get a scrape or sample and see for yourself. Trimming back the valve slightly at the end of the reed slot is a good thing no matter what you use.
Last Edited by on Aug 21, 2009 3:53 PM
If you are referring to playing chromatically in terms of playing in different keys on one harmonica, then I cannot comment. If you mean adding chrometicity to your playing by being able to fill in the missing notes in the scale, then I beg to differ. The riffs just are arranged differently and sound different.
BINGO!!! Now I get it. I can't help my approach to the harp and wanting to playing in multiple keys.
If you're adding just the few missing notes then I agree that valves may be the way to go.
This OB thing has me so twisted that I hardly ever think of 2nd position and just the few missing notes. In some of the positions that I have used all of the notes seem to be missing especially if I have been hanging out with Todd Edmunds.
Bill Romel has passed but his widow still makes the self adhesive valves. They are a good call for this purpose, as you can remove them and reposition them, or if you are careful, reattach them elsewhere. http://www.harmonica-workshop.com/ will get you her email addy. They make it easy to get into windsavers. Only tonight I used a D major cross with valves on 7 and 8, and got the draw bends on those holes which give you the notes you normally have to overbend.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Feb 24, 2014 12:29 AM
Putting valves on blow 6 and 7 draw does exactly what I wanted. As has been said, you can't hit the bends hard, but after only a bit of messing about I was able to blow a major 7th and draw a flatted 3rd. Nice.
