When I started playing harp and until recently, I have used too much volume and breath force. I have noticed that I can get more texture in my tone with lower volume. The louder I play the harsher sounding my playing seems to be. Lower volume with more focused diagram breathing is getting me better results. This is hard to learn because as a wind instrument you cannot perceive this outwardly and learn by watching others play harp. Unlike learning the notes of a song, control of the breath makes all the difference in the world. Yet this is hard for someone to teach, or is it?
I wonder how many of you experienced players noticed when and if you made a transition from more forceful breath to more focussed breath and less volume, and has that made your playing better? and is there a time for the more forceful technique?
I continue to marvel at the degree in which the regulation of my breathing contributes to just how much I ENJOY playing this instrument. For me, trying to force most anything to respond, let alone a "tiny" harmonica reed - usually only results in immediate trouble or future problems.
Yep common problem with harp players. Trying to compete with,for example a loud band on a stage can really mess up your tone and just about make everthing a mish mash. It can be a hard road trying to achieve good acoustic tone and then translating that to a band situation. It's a wonderful feeling when you can play amped up but still hear yourself accoustically.
There is a direct correlation between breath efficiency and volume...in other words, there is a point where you start using too much energy (force)and begin to get diminishing returns.
One should learn to "breathe" the harmonica - not suck and blow. It is actually surprising how much volume can be achieved through breathing efficiently.
There is also a much wider palette of sounds/colors that you can create.
Once you cross over from breathing to suck/blow, you are much more limited in results.
The problem arises because it may be harder to hear the harmonica when playing with other instruments, causing one to play HARDER. However, here is where one should learn to use mics/amplification to push the sound out (from acoustic based playing at a mic all the way down to holding that green bullet and using a beefy amp). ---------- The Iceman
A big part of automatically playing too hard is sort of the whole macho thing of sort of out-machoing everybody else. When you're around people who play too loud, the automatic macho reaction is to play harder, which is the dumbest thing to do because not only you get winded quick, your tone also sucks, and the vast majority of players who play too hard tend to put (unknowingly) emphasis on the odd numbered upper harmonic overtones, which the ear percieves as thin, tinny, and harsh and also trying to compete that ways is a losing battle and this where you gotta remember, if you have a rig or a Pa, let that do the heavy lifting but too many players are too hard headed to understand that. The other thing about breath control is that the harder you play, the SLOWER you play, and if you want to do fast stuff, especially using phrases that have tons of breath shifts (by that, I mean phrases where you are constantly going from blow to draw breath and vice versa in a very rapid fashion, like what Charlie McCoy does on his uptempo version of the Orange Blossom Special), and if you use too much force, you will get winded VERY quickly).
Breath control is VERY IMPORTANT for tone, tone control, tonal variety, and dynamics, somethijng many harp players aren't good at because they fail to learn this important technique. The added financial benefit is that your harps will last a helluva lot longer as well.
This is something I've been daying for years. The average player tends to play considerably harder than most pros actually do.
One other reason why you may not hear yourself amped or not on the bandstand is something you cannot control by any means at all, and that's room acoustics, and EVERY room/stage are ALWAYS different and there's nothing that can truly compensate for that and what I learned was from a great blues piano player many years ago named David Maxwell, who was used to that playing onstage with an acoustic piano with no monitors, and that you learn not to hear yourself and go with gut, but with RESTRAINT, and many players often fail to understand that.
I also recommend, and I've mentioned this tons of times over the years, is to go to a reputable vocal coach and learn breathing and relaxation exercises from them because I guarantee that these will improve your playing tremendously, and I've already done that and one of the things they trach is learning to sing with a very open throat and be 100% fully relaxed because when this happens, your air passages get widened considerably and so air flow is much freer and what you'll find is that you will have much more volume with FAR less breath force plus your sound projection will also dramatically improve as well.
The best single lesson I ever got about breath control was back in the 70's hanging out with Big Walter Horton and this one night, I had a friend of mine with me who asked him how he did the intro of his cover of a LW tune called Can't Hold On Much Longer that he did for Alligator. He had already packed his harps up for the night and so I let him you my key of A Marine Band and he did it just like he recorded it, but it was played VERY softly, which was totally opposite of what 80% of the players on the planet tend to do and it was a huge eye opener.
98% of all beginning players and 50-75% of intermediate players are all guilty of this and it's just flat out bad playing technique. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
BBQBOb - I love the "automatic macho reaction" - let's just call it AMR. I think that applies to many aspects of our playing and certainly gets in the way. For that matter it applies to many aspects of our LIVES. We would be a better sex if we learned to control our AMR's. ---------- /Greg
Still learning this after forty years of playing. Doing pattern work practice last night I finally relaxed a little , took it 'easier' and was reminded once again - easier breath- is easier speed.. Breathing instead of blowing and sucking - yeah.
I do this more naturally when playing acoustically. When I cup a bullet mic - that 'macho' tendency naturally emerges. It's like 'guns up - attack!'
Love that Big Walter Horton story.
vocal coach huh? I should buck up and do that. It couldn't hurt my singing eiter I supppose. ----------
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2012 9:01 AM
In a very early issue of Living Blues magazine, Bill Lindemann had an interview of Little Walter and Louis Myers together and when the subject of why Walter preferred to play amplified came up, LW's reply was, and I quote, "'cause I don't have to be blowin' so hard!"
When it comes to a vocal coach or the breathing exercises, many of you may want to go the ultimate cheapie route via You Tube videos, but to be honest about, you are FAR better off having a flesh and blood instructor directly in front of you, and even a Skype lesson isn't as good because when your one on one, they can see things quite easily that 99% of the time, you're never going to notice and can help correct things in a much quicker fashion. For those who take the lessons, you'll also learn what really breathing from the diaphragm is all about and trust me, in the first few months, that muscle will be SORE as hell because you're gonna actually be using it for probably the very first time in your life and you'll finally figure out why often times opera singers often don't need a microphone to get so much volume and projection and not even break a sweat doing it.
Bonedog, it is usually those who are playing acoustic when there are more than one guitar player with them is where a s**tload of harp players usually tends to go into the AMR thing, but once you unlearn doing that when amplified, EVERYTHING about your playing will improve, but it takes TONS of woodshedding to do it because like any other habit that has been entrenched, it doesn't go away overnight and there's no magic bullets to stop it.
Greg, that's a good point and maybe it can also be said that it's an automatic shoot yourself in the foot moment could be an ever better description. I've usually described this more as the DAM method, meaning dumb ass macho. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2012 9:47 AM
I have a BIG QUESTION, as I seem to have the opposite problem: I play too softly.
At our meetup, a few guys with good tone pointed out to me, that I'm not playing 'free' enough (to summarize it in my words). There are a couple of guys there that just 'whack the reeds', but the better players all have well supported tones that are way louder then mine. So I'm working on getting louder by opening the chest (and my gaps as well...).
Am I the only one that's playing too softly? As everyone seems to play too loud?
You’re playing to softly if your playing right into my ear and I can’t hear what your playing.
Think of it like talking at a comfortable volume level with someone who is roughly 5 to 10 feet away from you – play your harp at that same voice level and that is plenty loud enough when playing acoustically. If someone complains they can’t hear you – you either have them come closer to you or you walk over to get closer to them. And remember loudness doesn’t equate to tone…
for me, aside from wanting to be an equal member of the band at the moment, my main goal was to be heard. i played with some very loud cats in the 90's. still true today if i go to certain jams. when you are o0n stage and can't even hear your own self, you can fall into the trap of "if i just play loud enough to hear myself, that works". which is so not true. if you can't hear yourself nobody else will hear you either and you WILL blow up reeds using all that extra wind. my favorite reed to wreck used to be 4 draw, but others as well. i have killed dozens of harps over many years thanks to that stubborn idea that i could suck harder and be heard somehow. a couple of things have changed for me in recent years 1) i am not playing with rock based high powered blues bands much at all these days, and 2) in a more intimate setting with 1 partner and smaller rooms and amps, i do not have to work a harp as hard, right or wrong. i can let the amp or p.a. do the amping and i can work with much better tone. same goes for all acoustic. if everyone can't hear me within a city block, oh well. 3) even with a 3 piece band, we keep the volume to a sane level and i turn up my small amp as far as it will go before total feedback, then control my volume with my mic volume pot. it gets a bit loud at times but crowds like this sometimes.
the upshot though, is i am not killing harps like i did 10 years ago. it was not unusual to blow out a sp20 in a gig or 2. or an mb or blues harp or lee oskar or hering free blues.
one other thing changed for me. i changed what my go-to harp is and i am pretty satisfied with what i use these days. Suzuki Manji. more expensive than the garden variety but to me well worth it for the better quality and engineering.
part of really discovering tone is to play much more softly and add nuance as you go. listen to Rice Miller on some of his solo stuff. that's a goal to work toward. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
I started this argument awhile back on a thread...I prefer to not blow out reeds and rarely do....many disagreed with me...but they did not convince me...I still agree with barbqs advice
Beginner here. Currently I don't feel I have much choice in volume when trying to play overblows or overdraws. I know I need a bit more experience, but I can't imagine playing a soft 7 overdraw.
---------- Great experiences with: 1623 Harmonicas
Free Willy, the problem you have comes down to also not being 1005 fully relaxed when playing and when this happens, as it does with the vast majority of new players and many intermediates, all of your facial, throat and chest muscles tend to tighten up considerably and once that happens, you've SEVERLY constricted or to put in a better way, SHRINK the size of your air passages and most of the air you use gets wasted and this very same principle applies to a vocalist as well which is why I recommend EVERY harp player going to a reputable vocal coach and get some very serious lessons in breathing and relaxation and every reputable coach is ALWAYS going to check these things first because proper breath support is vital to good vocal tone and projection without forcing or straining things.
On the other hand, when playing that softly amplified, as long as your around people in a band that has a handle on dynamics and brings THEIR volume down, which is something you RARELY ever see in the vast majority of open jams (having also hosted one, it's incredibly common and many of the jammers just give a crap about their own solos and screw everyone else and that's why you rarely ever see pros going to them), you have an entirely different tone than at a more medium breath level and certainly different than when full blast and these are things that separates the truly good players from everyone else.
Breath control is key and one of the most widely ignored techniques for harp playing by far too many players, and most players who play too hard usually sound god awful. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Great point Bob...I'm learning when playing harp to keep my body including the face, neck etc, in relatively the same experience I adhere to when I'm having a relaxed conversation with a friend. And this awareness seems to transfer to playing the harp with a better sense of breathing music as opposed to forcing it into existence...
Last Edited by on Nov 17, 2012 8:00 AM
Another revelation for me was when I would see Pro harpsters do their thing in person and it appeared that they were blowing their brains out...And then when I would get home and try to replicate what I heard - It was only possible for me to do so when I was in a relaxed state of being. So I came to believe and understand that the top touring Pros, from being so "stage savvy" have learned and mastered how to put on a (visually exciting) show - that from the audiences point of view the harp player seems to be blowing their lungs and brains out- while smoke is coming out of their ears… but, underneath it all, is a relaxed calmness within themselves that enables their music to be super tone full, exciting and an experience to behold!
Last Edited by on Nov 17, 2012 8:18 AM
I agree with pretty much all of what is said above regarding the importance of being able to play with less force, allowing more nuanced playing, better tone, and less damage to harmonicas. Breathe through the harp, etc. is valid. Volume is not just the result of blowing hard, resonance in your body builds volume. Etc... All true.
However, I believe that you need to be able to use the full dynamic range of the instrument, and that means that at times you may choose to play at the edge of losing tone (hopefully not beyond the edge!). This need is particularly evident in a fully acoustic setting where you want to be heard across a room. If the setting has decent acoustics, you may be able to get the attention of the audience with a loud phrase or two, then drop your volume and play softly... Dynamics add a lot of interest, and if you only play softly, you are not using dynamics.
There are times and situations requiring loud unamplified playing. Recently at the end of a festival I played at a fully acoustic public jam with guitars, mandolins, banjos, piano, double bass, cajon, and snare in a bar crowded with an audience of 80 people. To be heard in a setting like this, you have to push the boundary. Trying to sing in this setting was also challenging.
I have also seen the issue of playing too softly arise at SPAH blues jams. Seeing a good player across the room take a turn at a SPAH jam and being unable to hear anything but one or two notes is very frustrating. It might have been exquisite playing, but who could tell?
Sometimes if you are to be heard by the audience (and if you don't care to be heard, why bother playing in that setting?) you have to be able to project and push that limit. If you are just wanting to be heard by yourself and not by others, don't bother to show up to play publicly at such an event. Or choose to only play when sound reinforcement and circumstances meet your criteria, and forgo those settings. If you choose to play, you have to play to be heard. Sometimes that means pushing the limit. ----------
For dynamics, you HAVE to have good breath control PLUS in a band situation, you have to take TOTAL CONTROL of the band's dynamics, even if you have to get in people's faces about it in no uncertain terms. You also have to bear in mind that room acoustics can fool the hell out of your ears and there are times when you may think you'e not loud enough on a bandstand, but when you, for example, have a wireless unit as part of the rig, walk into the crowd, you may find yourself horrified to be the loudest a**hole on the bandstand and in an outdoor festival, your ears can seriously fool you into thinking you may not be loud enough because outdoors, the sound you may travels farther and faster than you're gonna be aware of. Most players NEVER take this into consideration at all and this comes from years of experience. This very same thing not only applies to harmonica, but also for vocals as well.
Many players who read reviews of their musical heroes in the press, be it print, online, or anything else may want to pay attention to what I'm gonna tell you here.
Often times, in the case of harmonica, you'll see phrases like "blew so hard," or "blowing his brains out," the average person, including harp players often are going to believe that these writers are FULLY knowledgeable about everything they write about, and so many are often more inclined to automatically believe what's being said.
However, here's a bit of a dirty little secret, but remember, this does NOT necessarily apply to all. 95% of these writers are NOT musicians/former musicians at all, and on top of that, the ones who are, 95% of the time, have NEVER played harmonica in their lives, and tho such phrases like "blowing his brains out," or "blew so hard," may descriptive and quite colorful, far more often than not, they are actually FAR from the truth because the vast majority of pros don't play anywhere near as hard as these phrases lead you to believe. I'm gonna leave it at that because this would be taking this off on a tangent that will be off kilter in terms of this subject and belongs in a future thread.
Audiences definitely love the visual aspect of things AKA showmanship and it most certainly does help out a lot, even when you change harps in the middle of the tune and people eat that stuff up like crazy.
---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
There is something to be said for pacing yourself, especially if you're featured on most of the material in a set list--what I learned to do was to learn the songs and develop solos particular to the individual number. This isn't to say that I was a human tape recorder playing back the same riffs over and over, but it helped my stamina to have a map , so to speak, of where I was going. The result, generally, was that solos that were short and sweet were sweet, and the longer solos I took on the one or two "showcase" numbers I had were tastier, less verbose, more confident. I also made use of putting pauses in my playing, giving me a chance to breath in, and using octaves and chords, another way to catching my breath. Also, I learned to step away from the mic and not play when there wasn't need; it spared the band and the audience from overdosing on my playing, and provided another opportunity to catch my breath and listen to what others were up to. ---------- TED BURKE http://youtube.com/watch?v=-VPUDjK-ibQ&feature=relmfu
Speaking as an audience member looking to be entertained…I agree "dynamics" are key and really enhance the musical conversation and keeps me alert and intrigued...And the blues bands that enjoy teasing their audience dynamically are to be applauded. It is definitely an art in itself to pull of “dynamic playing” that is genuine enough to be felt by those in the audience, and seeing and hearing those performances are for me the memorable ones. And the great thing about learning to play the harp in a relaxed non-forceful way is it gives you room to bring up the volume dynamically when the urge and need to do so presents it self.
I think playing softly with good tone is one of the hardest things to do on most wind insturments. My son is in the beginning group of the youth symphony and for the first few rehersals the conductor spent a lot of time trying to get them to play softly so they had somewhere to go when the piece needed more volume.
I find the Harmonica a little easier to play softly than the trombone but it still requires good breath support to keep the tone quality at low volumes. WHen you learn to keep the tone supperted at low volumes it also improves the tone at normal and loud volumes.
I don't really know what is going on physically when the tone is being supported but I remember an image a my high school band director gave once. He said to imagine you have a marble in your belly button and you have maintain tension to keep it there. Whenever our tone would get weak he would comment "there are marbles all over the floor!".
Last Edited by on Nov 17, 2012 3:36 PM
One point that is not made here.. is that if you get good breath control your volume can be much greater with much less effort. When I play with some other harmonica players they comment that I can play loudly. Yet they blow out harps all the time and I rarely blow out mine. They run out of breath and I can go for hours.
One way to test this idea is to blow or draw constantly and close down your mouth and throat and open it way back up while you play. Not only will the tone deepen when your throat and mouth is open, but also your volume and cut are much greater.
spackle20...If done correctly on a well set-up harp you can play the 7 overdraw with the slightest of breath. The softer I've learned to play these notes the more control I have over color, shaping, and bending the note. I wish they were called something besides overblows and overdraws. It implies the idea of working harder. "Pop" the overblow is a bad term as well.
i always looked at blues dynamics as sound from a whisper to a shout,if all you do is shout than how are you going to take it up a notch.the feel for me is like cracking a whip,you can move your notes along with a figure 8 and when you feel a hot riff crack the whip on it.a dude i know has this kind of dynamics,Steve Guyger,listen to him..also Buddy Guy can crack a whip on some notes...from a whisper to a shout.
Last Edited by on Nov 18, 2012 4:14 AM
As a 5-month beginner now making some progress, I've wanted to post this message to other beginners, and set out to do so this morning when I read blueswannabe's post. Nearly word for word what I wanted to say. However, I'll add this bit of visualization, which I hope will help.
My breakthrough came from a harp teacher I began seeing recently, named Brian McInnis, http://harmonicalessonsnyc.com/. I continue to have trouble controlling the bend on the 3 draw. Brian has me doing it softer and softer, but thinking about the air pressure in that little hole. Only when YOU MAINTAIN THAT AIR PRESSURE will that little reed float happily along on that airstream and be responsive to every little movement of your tongue, jaw, and throat. (Did you ever create a really great bend? One that you sustained and had total control of? For me, it happens a lot on the 4 draw and it feels like I have a maraschino cherry on the tip of my tongue that I can flip around at will. That's what I'm talking about.)
Now, if you're like me you've started off thinking that pressure = force. IT DOES NOT. Air pressure comes from the strength of your diaphragm. That's the foundation of the system of playing the harp. A foundation doesn't falter. It's just always there. Pushing out that air pressure slow and steady, but powerful.
Brian's help caused me to visualize a bag pipe and how I thought it works. I looked it up and sure enough, I was right. You know what else? It's how lots of other wind instruments work, INCLUDING YOUR VOICE. With a bag pipe, the bag is your diaphragm. The player simply inflates the bag with the air he's blowing into the mouthpiece, but that air coming from the mouthpiece is not going directly through the reeds to make the notes. Like I said, that air is filling the bag. The power of that beautiful sound (I love the bag pipes) comes from the player's elbow gently and steadily squeezing the bag. Just like your diaphragm muscle creating a steady air pressure in that little hole in the harp. As the air flow passes through the reeds in the pipes, sound is created. The reeds are merely tuning the pitch of the sound, but the sound itself comes from that wonderfully full head of air pressure coming from the elbow on the bag.
By the way, an accordian works the same way, a saxophone, an oboe, and your voice. With your voice, the power comes from your diaphragm and your vocal chords are simply tuning the pitch. That's why your vocal career will be short lived if you sing from your throat and not your diaphragm.
This was a breakthrough for me and hope it will be for my fellow beginners. Until that moment, my focus in playing the harp was around my face. In moving around the harp to play the right note. Always the notes, the notes. Did I make a mistake? And even though I wanted good tone, I wasn't focusing on the thing that would create it.
Now, I try to focus on my diaphragm and relaxing my breathing. It's a mental shift. What has happened? I make far fewer mistakes in the notes. It's a zen-like phenomenon happening, because as I am "meditating" on my breathing, my mind is free to make music! There's many benefits to this, but one real nice and quick payoff, is a little vibrato will start to be heard, without even trying.
If I can save my fellow beginners months and years of frustration, I would say this. Keep your melodies simple and internalize that breath and diphragm pressure. Learn to bend masterfully, not a single bend, but up and down that 2 and 3 draw at will; half step, whole step, 1.5 step and back again. This cannot be done until you are breathing correctly.
I'm afraid too much beginner instruction is focused on the notes, the scales, and the melodies, as well as, dare I say, playing a clear single note! I'm afraid that the early quest for playing a single note forces your embouchure into some unnatural position that robs tone and keeps the focus on mouth and off the diaphragm. You know what, when I listen to pioneers, Sonny Boy and such, I hear a lot of chords! But we love that sound because oh, that tone. So warm and soulful. Single notes will come. Complex melodies will come. Master the breathing and the bending, but more than bending, the control over that reed through the air pressure. It can be done. It takes patience and love. Keep it fun.
We’re all looking for that freedom to play as easily as we can converse with one another..
Here is a little exercise to try, repeat this phrase >" I am going to walk up to the store and get some pizza, chicken wings, eggs, gum, and candy" now say it at a much slower pace and concentrate on what your tongue and throat are doing, how are they moving, changing direction opening up and closing off etc.. and how this feels so natural and effortless.
Eventually one day effortless bending will happen too.... as you continue to consciously focus on the little changes that are made in your mouth to instantly prompt a reed to change pitch, your minds eye will begin to see clearly and your muscle memory will be strengthened to the point that your bends will be a natural extension of your harmonica voice, and as easily executed as your talking voice creates sound and verbally logical communication
And I know it’s beating a dead horse but, finesse is what bends respond to, not force!
Last Edited by on Nov 18, 2012 8:40 AM
What Walterharp says is what I've been saying for years. Another thing many harp players tend to do, ESPECIALLY beginners and many intermediate players, is that when they play their draw notes, often times their breath force tends to be CONSIDERABLY harder than their blow notes, PLUS you see more than a few unknowingly use a military style of breathing, which is sucking your gut in when inhaling, which may make you think you look more "ripped" and "cooly macho," but in no certain terms, that is one of the dumbest things to do for both harp playing as well as vocals. Why? You tense up considerably doing this and you shrink the size of your passages, and so to get air out, automatically you wind up playing harder, but you waste as much as 80% of your actual breath.
Keeping ALL of your throat, facial and chest muscles FULLY relaxed is very important so you can be more flexible not only for opening up your air passages, but also making subtle adjustments to both your embouchure as well as the inside shape of your mouth in order to do many more things on the instrument.
In order to have good dynamics, you HAVE to have good breath control, no ifs, ands or buts about it at all. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Many good points here about breathing, tone, volume through efficiency, and using finesse in bending.
I didn't notice this mentioned above, but if it is there, it doesn't hurt to reinforce this point:
When learning to relax and breathe from the diaphragm it is easier to to learn to breathe correctly when standing than when sitting. It is much easier to learn proper breath control if you stand in an upright relaxed posture and don't hunch over, scrunch your shoulders, or tense up in any way. Even when you have learned and know how to breathe properly when sitting, standing up will let you breathe better and increase lung capacity and resonance.
If I am trying to project with resonance when playing harp or singing, standing upright and relaxing produces better results than when sitting, and much better than when hunching over. If I am tense, vocal and harmonica tone suffers, so I pay attention and consciously relax.
Deak Harp and Jason Ricci recently mentioned the effect of posture on tone during Brandon's workshop in Urbana, encouraging relaxed upright playing. Barbeque Bob has brought this up over and over. Iceman has addressed this in many posts. When good players keep mentioning this, we should pay attention. ----------
In Escott and Hawkins' book "Sun Records--The Brief History", Big Walter recalled recording the song "Easy"-
'We cut that thing in three or four takes but my box started screechin' and we had to cut it. I played real loud on that one. I like to play loud.'
Playing your harp loud is a good way to induce feedback in your amp. That is why many of us use volume controls on our microphones. When Horton said he likes to play loud I don't think he was talking about cranking the amp. It was a recording session, after all. I think he was saying he likes to play the harp hard sometimes. Nothing else makes sense in the context of his quote.
Nothing wrong with that. Some players play loud, and some don't.
Hey, if it was good enough for Walter Horton it is fine with me. Use whatever technique you like. It's the sound that counts.
On parts of this recording Big Walter does indeed seem to be playing hard.
I'll speculate with you Rick...and this is a good song to use as an example, because most harp players know how to play it and can relate.
I think Walter is referring to "feedback" when he mentions > (my box started "screechin") - what I tend to interpret as (my amp started "feeding back") Then he goes on to say { "I played real loud on that one. I like to play loud.'} I interpret this as him confirming that the "screeching" was from playing the amp at a loud volume...
Speaking from my experience of playing the tune - it is the combination of a loud amp and a not playing hard that reproduces Walters "easy" instrumental ..It's easy to equate dynamics with "playing harder" - I feel that when I hear Walters playing get louder in this song, it is his mic technique along with note choice and attack while supporting the intensity of his breathe with his diaphragm that is raising the volume in those phrases.
From spending time playing Walters songs, I come away speculating that he is not a hard player - even when it appears that way. I do agree whole heartily that if a player chooses to play the harmonica hard...that is fine, we have a choice! For me personally, as the years go by - the more I realize just how silly it is to try and manipulate this tiny instrument through harder playing- it's a losing battle!
A good measure to use to verify whether or not you may be playing harder then necessary is if after you finish playing an instrumental and you can't talk in a normal tone of voice and feel like you just finished jogging, you probably have room for re-evaluating if you may be playing harder then needed to capture the essence of the tune.
Last Edited by on Nov 22, 2012 4:42 AM
Wow, I never feel as if I've been jogging after I play a song or a set. That would be pretty extreme. But then I'm in good shape, work out every day, etc. I'm pretty sure that helps with my harp playing.
At a gig last weekend the club owner had the place really warm when we started the show, and up on the stage with all the lights it was hot. I probably looked like I'd been jogging because I sweated, and it was harder to breathe. But as soon as things cooled down everything was fine.
I don't know if Big Walter Horton played loud. I don't really care. The debate is like medieval priests debating whether Jesus owned the clothes he wore. The argument is inane and it is meaningful only to the those who consider themselves to be priests.
And... Happy Thanksgiving to all my harp friends. It is an American holiday that celebrates our heritage. For you who live elsewhere, have a great day, too!
As a runner and marathoner,I can run at a comfortable pace,and speak normally as I do so. That is how I know I am at max burn rate-any more than that-ie I have a hard time talking as I run-is race pace-which I reserve for training and actual race day.
Who knows-maybe the voulme was increased in the studio-still does not sound like Walter is playing harder at any point-just louder. Which is more than likely the point he was trying to convay in the statement above.
Last Edited by on Nov 22, 2012 8:52 AM
\ "I don't know if Big Walter Horton played loud. I don't really care." Rick, if you didn't care, why bring it up in the first place?
Debating is fine, arguing, not so much...This has been a great thread for a reason - it is a pertinent subject for a lot of players. The real question everyone wants to know is if The Son of God had a belly button?
Frank, I didn't "bring it up in the first place." And your distinction between debating and arguing is curious. Nice to know we have an expert among us who can discern what is "pertinent" and what is not.
Hey, some people play hard and some don't. And some scold others about it. And still others cast meaningless arguments about what is and what is not pertinent. We must be in an Internet forum...
Try to lighten up and have a good Thanksgiving, okay?
the point i am trying to make is you need to vary your attack
a piano player would not pound on the keys as hard as possible he would when called for
he also would not play as softly as possible all the time
it's all about touch! a grace note would be hit softer than the following note
same with harmonica its all about breath control some times you need to play with more force" fortissimo" some times with the lightest touch.
i will use lester butler as an example cause he's dead and wont argue lol!
if you do not have a copy of "live at the king king" i suggest you get a copy
the first track, automatic.. the first 12 bars is all tongue blocked if you play forcefully you will run out of air it is never good to run out of air just be grateful you are not scuba diving
listen to his version of cross your heart he plays a simple, one note solo try that using a strong breath force once again you run the risk of running out of air if you keep running out of air i would suggest not taking up skydiving!
however,the song highwayman a bit more breath force is called for he leans into the 2 and the 4 hole draw he cups the mic a "little bit" tighter
i am just now reminded of the a quote by deepek chopra "if you force a solution on a problem it will cause other problems" i would like to add my own quote sometimes the necessary force is required!
As I said in my 11/17/12 post above, "I believe that you need to be able to use the full dynamic range of the instrument..." This is part of learning to play the instrument.
I think you should learn to be able to play loudly and take it to the edge of losing tone, and you should be able to play softly with nuance. Then I think it is up to each to choose when, and in what circumstances, we will play quietly or loudly. Different kinds of music and performances can have wildly different standards, and while I may not like all of what I hear, I support the right of the artist to choose.
I think that performances are improved by varying the volume, time, keys, and modes of the songs. Varying volume during a song improves it most of the time. But it isn't an inflexible rule.
Several years ago I attended a Corky Siegel workshop on dynamics, not harp centric, but addressing vocal and instrumental use of dynamics to enhance the interest of the piece. It was ear opening, and I have worked to incorporate this into performance ever since. ----------
I've seen BW tons of times and much of what he played is soft with an occasional harder (but NOT full tilt hard at all) note, and when the phrases start out super soft and then hit with a medium level breath, it will often seem like he's playing much harder than he really is.
On Easy (the melody he plays is actually Ivory JOe Hunter's Almost Lost My Mind), he starts out playing super soft breath, basically like a whisper, the following a tad harder with certain notes, slightly harder, and it builds up more each verse, but he is NEVER hitting fully hard at all and when you start off softer and then hit a tad harder and also change the shape of your embouchure and inside shape of your mouth, here's where the tone colors and variety is coming from and NOT from the gear. So by doing these things, you have the ILLUSION of playing really hard, but in reality, that is NOT what is happening at all. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
billy gibbons from zz top also the 2 guitar players from the band judas priest and also tommy iommi of black sabbath
they all use extremely light gauge strings super slinkys
these must be played with a super light touch they will go out of tune just by looking at them! and still listen to how dynamic they play you can get a powerful sound playing softly.
having said that big walter seems to me to be increasing his breath every verse if he played one more verse he would be hitting it pretty hard.
"the first track, automatic.. the first 12 bars is all tongue blocked if you play forcefully you will run out of air it is never good to run out of air just be grateful you are not scuba diving"
I do this tune and 9 out of 10 times,I'll run out of air. I have to start the song acapella and it always makes me nervous. Nervous=tense. The few times I didn't run out of air,I consciously forced myself to relax.
When your "baseline" is medium soft in force/breath/guitarstrings/pianotouch - where you spend most of your time - and you have the knowledge of amplification + equipment to get your sound "out there", you will be amazed at how wide a color palette your instrument will allow - especially if you use LOUD or FORCE very sparingly and only for great effect.
Musicians like this really knock out the audience when they decide to "floor it" every once in a great while.
On the other hand, musicians that "floor it" as the baseline will cause ear fatigue in the audience and the listener will soon lose their attention span towards this performer - methinks. ---------- The Iceman
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