I've been trying to work my blues-influenced playing into some New Orleans rhythms, with limited success
To my ears these sort of tunes atre a little more major-sounding than standard blues - more use of the 2nds and 6ths, occasionally play the 3rd unbent etc. But it's all about the rhythm, and hitting a groove against what can be a busy arrangement.
Here's Chris O'Leary playing Tcoupitoulas - very tasty playing.
James Harman's "My Little Girl" also works the same sort of groove.
Second Line is a tune I know in my sleep. Blues usually has been much more major than minor and the so called blue notes (being minor 3rds, tho in fact, with a guitar, it's really right in between both, to be mujch more exact), and the idea of the blue note was basically done by black musicians to tick the white slave/plantation owners and this was essentially breaking the rules of the conventions of western music.
If you listen to more than just the more down home stuff that most people think of as harmonica stuff, and begin listening to blues also in the jazz idiom, plus with jump blues and blues ballads, you will find not only major 3rds being used, but also major 7ths as well.
Many of the things coming out of the New Orleans sound over the years have done all of those things, plus also tons of counter rhyhtms as well.
The use of major 3rds and 6ths makes the sound a bit more jazzy and definitely more swinging as well.
What you may think of as a busy arrangement is largely because of the counter rhythms that are very commonplace with that sound and the bottom line with it is that everything ALWAYS must groove no matter what from not only the rhythm section but the lead players as well. This is also a very common thing in many different Latin music genres as well.
It also says something I keep saying to harp players all the time is that you can't just listen exclusively to harp players, nor can you just listen to solos, and too many of them don't pay attention to the groove and wind up playing things so totally inappropriate to what's going on around them and often times learning the ins and outs of the groove and feel, because much of it is very subtle, is often times more difficult for most people to learn wheras with a solo, it's always in your face sort of obvious.
Even the horn lines you hear are rhythm lines as well. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
@barbequebob Thanks for the post, though to clarify I'm talking about playing over the traditional New Orleans beat, rather than the "second line" song itself. The band I play in has leans heavily on a New Orleans sound (the keys player is a big Jon Cleary fan) so plenty of numbers like Big Chief, Junko Pardner going on to some more obscure numbers or reinventing standards in a New Orleans style.
While some of them have a defined head others I'm left to work out how I approach my solos - I'm the singer so I usually don't do much accompaniment. And to clarify my poorly written original post - I meant "major scale-sounding" i.e. inclusion of 2nds, 3rds, 6ths over and above the traditional blues scale. Haven't come across too many major sevenths yet, which is good as I'm mainly a cross harp non-OB player.
Anyway, I agree it's all about the rhythm, and finding phrases that have counter rhythms seem to work best. I'm finding that simple but punchy lines are working best - similar to how I'd tackle a rumba - but keeping an open ear for what pro players might approach similar material.
@timesistight Great clip, thanks. You're right I should try some of the horn lines on harp. It's surprising how different some blues-based horn phrasing is to standard harp riffs - for example I found the head to Big Chief totally non-intuitive. A good exercise though!
Anyone else? Any tracks from Andy Forrest, Smokey Greenwell, Johnny Sansone I should check out especially?
Gambler'shand, the advice about listening to horn players is something I tell harp players all the time and if you listen carefully to many of the greats over the years and do an AB test with horn players, especially jump blues and swing/swing horns, you'll be surprised how much of the stuff many of your harp heroes have taken from them, not just the lines themselves, but also the DYNAMICS of the lines as well.
I understand what you're saying, but much of the harp you've been thinking of has its roots with the delta sounds and many people automatically assume that you're going to play totally pentatonic, but there's tons of blues with exactly those notes mentioned. Heck, since I also play a bit of guitar, you can even listen to the more down home stuff and there's tons of chording where there's the major 3rds prominently featured and many rhythm lines using 6th chords, which gives a decidely more swinging, jump feel to what's going on rather than using a 7th chord.
Much of what Little Walter played is all horn based and the sounds Louis Jordan's sax playing in a number of tunes is quite evident when to take the time to listen to horn stuff more carefully (and for too many harp players, now is the time to ditch the tabs and start developing better overall listening skills).
I think what's needed for you is to take more time listening to the grooves and the rhythm parts of what's happening and less with the soloing aspect so you can gradually learn to adapt what you'e doing so that they properly fit within the context of groove and feel so you're at a point where you're totally comfortable with it.
You may want to also do more stuff where you're not fronting and doing more backup/support work more than anything else and it'll help you get a better handle on it.
Several William Clarke tunes uses N.O. style stuff and one, (of which the name I can't remember at the moment), uses a very common horn line in a head of an entirely horn based band and talk about quoting horn lines, on his tune Fishing Blues, he's quoting the head almost note for note from Jazzman Charlie Parker's tune Yardbird Suite.
It comes down to NOT just listening to harp players and only the solos. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
