I'm working on a tune on an F harp which has a bunch of upper (6-9 hole) notes in it. My MB Deluxe is quite sticky and breathy up at this end, so I thought I'd try one of my old LO's as there's no overblows, but I'm getting the same feeling.
I know F is a pretty high key to be playing up there, but I was wondering if this is a technique thing or if some gapping may be required.
I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced similar things.
They're a little slow and sound breathy when blowing and drawing naturally. Squirting air in and out with my mouth makes the notes sound out better, but I've got no sustain.
Mixolydian scale. No bends. No overblows. You know what I'm trying to do Mike?
In my vast, deep, comprehensive and immensely broad experience (eh-hemmm), there are at least two - there may be more than two - important factors at play. One IS gapping, and the other is finesse. Those holes on any harp, but most especially on high keys, require more subtle gapping of the reeds, as well as an especially lighter and subtler approach to the breath/technique. Even without OB's and OD's. FWIW. I could be completely wrong (But I doubt it).
I play a boat load in the high end and find OOTB lower keys play better for my style than OOTB high keys.
I play hard up there, but have no issues. I gap the blow reeds tighter than the draw. I'll be the first to admit that I've been woodshedding a lot on my tone in that octave. I was able to play fast but was letting my jaw close too much.
The trick is to hit them as aggressive as any other holes. I think players tend to pinch off the notes or pull back on them.
Bending the 10th blow hole is not so easy on a OOTB F harp, but sustain it and make a vibrato is nigh impossible and probably need a little tweaking (gapping?).
I think you've hit the nail on the the head. Hit it with the same force as lower notes. That's what I was trying to explain with the squirting air in and out.
You're absolutely right in your surprise, but this tune has grabbed me for some time now because Popper does play some very nice legato stuff here. The best thing is he's doing it in the upper end of the harp, which is rare territory for most of us and why I'm having issues getting the damned thing to work. Sure he uses a few ornaments, but so would Stevie Wonder and yes, he does throw his obligatory speed chops in for the last few bars, but I think the whole thing is extremely tasteful and certainly something I'd like to have in my trick bag.
I played this to my long suffering wife. Her response was that it's pretty and a nice change from all the blues stuff she's normally subjected to.
I agree with HarpNinja ... gapping the draw notes higher than the blow notes gives you more action in the high register 7-10. When playing faster in register 7-10 I often use the same technique as in circular breathing, using the compression in the mouth's closed cavity. ---------- The tone, the tone ... and the Tone
I u block holes 7 through 10. Solved all my high note issues. I do pucker 7 overdraw, occasionally blow bend 8 and 9 puckered and when getting that third position, slapping sound, I TB.
Random anecdote...which is a sign of getting old...
I met John Popper for the first time in 2002. I had bought my first harp - a Sp20 in C - a few months before. Being the dumb newb I was, I asked him about how to play No Woman No Cry as it totally blew me away. He wasn't going to offer any advice, but was immediately interrupted by two hot chicks who demanded his attention.
I hung out with Ben and Chan from the band for about an hour instead.
Really, in hindsight, what I wanted to know was the harp key and position, but the question came out wrong. His approach to this solo (I obviously have this DVD and the concert CD from the show linked above) was exactly what I wanted to do on harmonica.
This song has special meaning as my first band was a reggae band. The guitar player passed away suddenly only a year later and he really was the person responsible for getting me into singing in bands. The remaining members formed a band my last year of college, which is when I bought my first harmonica. We did this song towards the end of every show in memory of our friend Blue, and it always brought the house down.
Goes to show how little I know about Popper and Blues Traveler. I thought this was Popper sitting in with Ziggy Marley's band. I thought it was a one off and never thought to look for more vids.
Edit:
Vid removed.
Last Edited by on Oct 31, 2012 7:54 AM
ok i got it.. though mainly that video strikes me as
1) damn i wish i could sing like popper 2) damn, i wish i could go to any cool show at redrocks.. that is where i cut my teeth on concerts as a kid.. the dead, joni, vsop etc.. love that place 3) the biggest reaction popper gets from the crowd is the bit in his solo where he drops down into the mid register and gets some balls in his tone (not to say that this version of his high stuff is not tasteful to my ear) Contrast in a solo is a good thing!
guess you need some gapping work, and I am with Rubin and TB up there for single notes unless doing lots of bends
Last Edited by on Oct 31, 2012 11:55 AM
@ninja "He wasn't going to offer any advice, but was immediately interrupted by two hot chicks who demanded his attention."
Popper?Groupies never cease to amaze me.....seems anyone can get laid if they play in a hit band :^) "money for nothin' and your chicks for free"
Our only groupie ,way back when, was at least sixty ,no teeth and a face like a road map of a small city." see me outside boys..." Ah well she regularly scored the drummer..does that count? ;-)
Last Edited by on Oct 31, 2012 9:30 PM
"So, bending becomes impossible, I think. Do you achieve playing things which are not horrible? I just can't!"
Bends and ODs works just fine. I close my throat and work the compression with my tounge and throat. To raise the OD's pitch I sometimes open up to the bottom of my lungs.
"Bends and ODs works just fine. I close my throat and work the compression with my tounge and throat. To raise the OD's pitch I sometimes open up to the bottom of my lungs."
Well, stunning technique, because we speak about an air pressure that lasts...maybe... half a second. I can't figure out how your reeds adjustments must be fine! Hats off guy!!
Ever since HCH3,I've been listening to Mitch Kashmar. He really works that high end. I've been copying one of his simpler pieces. It's in A and the 9 blow requires more force to get it started and then it's hard to maintain. But I have no problem doing it on a G or a Bb. Do you gap really tight on the high end? It's such a small gap to visually do it.
Sugar Blue and John Popper are very fast on the high end. I know Sugar Blue doesn't work on his OOTB Special 20s -- he said so at Hill Country. I don't about Popper, but I think I've read that his harps are OOTB, too.
Steveleigh, Popper can afford to do that because when you're a full time musician, you file your taxes as self employed and buying harmonicas are legitimate business expenses (yes, you have to save your receipts), and so they're tax write offs, and giving them out becomes another tax write off on top of that. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
If I was smart, I'd be paying tax on my gig money and deducting my music related purchases such as harps, amps, pianos, guitars, Spotify subscription, iPad and apps, gas, insurance, and so on.
Only problem is that the money I make gets paid to my band and I'd be exposing the other members to the Inland Revenue (UK's IRS).
I'd be receiving a tax rebate every year for sure. I might look into this.
if you are going to try a special 20 i would recommend trying the hetric comb as well spend a little extra and get a black one in corian very cool indeed
I do my taxes that way. In the US, you have to make a certain amount of money before it becomes an issue for bandmates. I forgot the amount, but unless you are making a ton of money from a specific club, and they are filing correctly, it isn't much of an issue.
The amount in the US for a club to pay an artist/band or for a bandleader to pay a band member in the year is $600 or more, much like the way it is whenever you hit a lottery prize in the USA. In the US, the right thing to do is for every person one hires for their band is to issue each member a 1099-MISC form for every member making over $600 per year from you and if they're paid less than that, you're not obliged to legally. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
What Bob said. We would just adjust whose tax info we used by club to spread that burden out. It is easy to show a loss, but not necessarily ethical to do so all the time. I mean, if you never make any money, then is it really a job?
Over here it's pretty tight. You're supposed to declare everything. That said, you are permitted to make a loss on a consistent basis. But you run the risk of getting inspected, which can be a pain, especially if you're running a largely cash based business.
It's been known for the Inland Revenue to show up with a bill for £10,000 and it's down to you to prove you don't owe it.
Most problems with high notes are technique. You need softer attack, while smaller amount of air in you mouth opposite to what you use for fat tone on 2 draw. ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
I've decided to woodshed on lower keys. I've probably been engaging in a major 'run before you can walk' exercise in trying to nail this technique on an F harp, although I'll be looking to build up to this. Certainly gapping is helpful, but technique is playing a major part. I think Popper relies on tone from his amp rather than his playing in terms of volume and actual shape. It's quite quiet and thin up there to get the speed.
Another thing I've noticed about this style of playing. The mixolydian scale lays out really well not only in the top end, but also lower down, requiring only one bend:
You've got to hand it to Popper. Whilst many may loath his playing, he caught onto something that no one else was doing. As for his speed, accuracy and technique, I don't think anyone can rightfully criticise him. He's obviously put the time in woodshedding.
I'm having a great learning experience. Whilst I don't want to make this a regular feature of my playing, or become a Popper clone, my speed shops are few and far between, so having a few of these available to me will be another string to the bow.
Boris, I definitely don't use a softer attack on those notes. I do change embochure, though. I swear I end up playing those notes more like a blues player than the rest of the harp. I think I might technically be a U blocker on holes 1-6. My tongue is usually curved so sides of my tongue hit the working side of my teeth. Sorta like this -\_/-!
My tongue is not so curled that is resides between teeth. By this I mean if I bit down when I was playing, my molars would hit my tongue. I always thought U Block meant it was very curled - so that if you bit down in that position, you wouldn't bite your tongue, but I guess I am not sure.
When I play holes 7-10 unbent, though, my tongue is totally flat, I am pulling air towards the back of my throat (not down), and I probably use more force than when I play holes 1-6.
On 1-6, the air flow doesn't hit the back of my throat so much...it goes down it at a steeper angle like I am swallowing.
HarpNinja Of course it possible to use more harder attack on high notes but if player have a problems with reed choking it can help to reduce attack. You're right about tongue. It's all about the same: different air amount. The lower note the wider you need to open jaw and the more curled tongue, the higher note - jaw can be closed a bit and tongue can be flatter.
I don't touch working side of me teeth by tongue and don't have any chance to bite my tongue. But I feel all me lower teeths by the sides of the tongue. ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
