So, I think I am convinced that I want to get a bigger amp rather than mic my Bugera V5 to a powered speaker at jams (it works but it is a lot of stuff to carry). (I think I may still try the route of taking the amp into the PA.) And I think you guys and others have convinced me that most of the lower cost, 30 watt or so, amps are not going to sound very good for harp. Short of spending upwards of $1000 for a Mission etc., it seems like a Bassman might be the best bet. So, I see different Bassman models for sale on Ebay, and wondered if someone can briefly tell me which ones I should look for and which ones to avoid. For example, I see now a Fender Bassman 100 B and a a Bassman 70 (100 watts, 70 watts?) listed along with 50 watt versions which are what I assume I want. Next question, I might want to go the route of getting a head rather than a combo. What would be a reasonable priced cab to go with that? Please keep in mind I am just jamming at this point. Thanks again.
Last Edited by on Oct 24, 2012 10:01 AM
There are some downsides to this: The amp is heavy. Mine is about 63 pounds.
Without mods it may howl with feedback. You may never be able to get the stock amp beyond 2 1/2 on the volume. It will require some mods to get it right.
The Green Bullet Mics website has an excellent article about coaxing good tone from the Bassman RI.
I paid $500 for my Bassman and probably added another $250 in upgrades, but I already had many of the components left over from previous projects. It also required some expert circuit work from Bruce Collins (of Mission Amps), and I use an expensive anti-feedback pedal to tame it down a bit. It is not a plug-n-play project for $500.
There is lots of info about my Bassman Project at the Blues Harp Amps Blog.
99.9% of the time when people refer to a bassman with regards to harp, they mean the tweed 4x10" 5F6A (40-50W). There are tolex bassman heads that can work well though. A tweed bassman can have the chassis relocated to a separate cab & keep the speakers in the main cab to make it easier to transport. ---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
A Bassman is a lot of amp for "just jamming at this point." As far as not wanting to spend $1000 on a Mission.. you'll end up spending as much or more for what you're considering.
You may want to consider a smaller amp like a Kalamazoo modified to include a direct output line. Greg at Blows Me Away can help you with that. Once you move beyond "just jamming at this point" you could start looking for more power.. that is if you still think you need it.
What might be an inexpensive alternative for now is picking up your own mic for running into the PA. Adam is a fan of the Sennheiser e906, which is a great microphone. For somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 you can get the e609 model that also works really well. Just doesn't have the selection for tone..
Thanks guys. Rich, a number of people here and harp players I know have suggested the Kalamazoo route, and I am think of that. Your suggestion about the Sennheiser mic(s) is that I mic my amp from the PA, correct? Is the sound you get that way different than running a cable from the amp into the PA (either my amp or a 'Zoo)? Before I forget, when I was searching around on Ebay I saw a '65 Kalamazoo Bass 30 amp. Do you (or anyone) if that is a 30 watt amp and would it work for harp? Rich Greenberg
Last Edited by on Oct 24, 2012 10:25 AM
Players often leave their amps at home when heading to my jam since they know there will be at least one good harp rig they can use. But this thread got me thinking about all the different amps that have been honked on the stage at Ziggies over the last three years. (At least the amps I can recall right now, in no particular order)
-Original 1959 Fender Bassman -Fender '59 Bassman Reissue -Mission Chicago 32-20 1x12 and 3x10 -Harpgear HG50 410 -Harpgear HG30 and 35 -Harpgear HG2 -Sonny Jr 410 and Super Sonny -Sonny Jr Cruncher and Super Cruncher -Fender silverface Princeton -Fender silverface Champ -Fender Blues Jr. -Fender Pro Jr. -Fender’65 Princeton Reverb RI -Peavey Delta Blues 210 -Kendrick Texas Crude -Kalamazoo Model 1 from Greg Heumann -Pignose 7-100 and HOG30 -VHT Special 6 Combo -Weber 5F2H custom -Masco ME-18 -Edward ED amp
(and probably many others I can't think of right now)
Edited to add:
-Fat Dog 2A and 4A -Fender BF Super Reverb -Fender Champion 600 -Fender Blues Deluxe -Fender DeVille 410 -Fender Princeton Recording Amp
When you're up for it - the 59 Bassman RI is a great investment. But it may be more than you want to carry to jams- if you can set up an easier rig that you are happy with. (Such as the Zoo with a line out - or a direct to PA option)
Regarding the mods to the Bassman RI - The two most critical ones are tube swaps (easy peasy) - and a bias pot. The Limited edition already has the bias pot, if you can find a deal on a used one of those you are pretty good to go. The other upgrade involves swapping in different speaers. There is more you can do to it and 5F6H is your go to man for the details if you ever get that deep into it.
Fun list Rick - Now ya gonna rank em for us? Apples / oranges, horses for courses, tradeoffs / different strengths and weaknesses - but you haven't shyed from sharing your favorites before - what say ye? ----------
Last Edited by on Oct 24, 2012 11:42 AM
@Rgsccr - Yup, was talking about micing your amp. I personally think it's best to have your own microphone for this purpose and not be dependent on the band/jam..
Here's my small rig, which is a 56-57 Silvertone 1331 that has had a 2nd 8" speaker installed in it somewhere along the line.. The microphone hanging in front of it is the Sennheiser e609.
I play in a 11pc band with a Harp Gear Rockbottom amp lined out to p.a. Believe it or not I can hear myself over the horn section.Alot of amp for not alot of money.This model is non longer available but keep your eyes open on flea bay for one.
In my opinion unless you like to haul a lot of heavy gear and are prepared to spend a lot of money on boutique gear (or in modifying select guitar amps and buying anti-feedback pedals), a smaller amp (5 to 30 Watts) that gives good tone and is mic'd or lined out to the PA is the best way to go. I love playing through a Bassman that is set up for harp, or a Sonny Jr., or a Meteor, or a Kendrick (never tried a HarpKing yet), but the weight and price has caused me to not go that route. Deak's Bassman is my favorite harp amp that I don't own.
I get by with a 13 Watt Gibson Explorer with a 10" Lil' Buddy speaker. I sometimes use my 30 Watt Stromberg-Carlson AU-57 PA head, or my 35 Watt Knight PA head. I have a separate cab with a Lil' Buddy 10" speaker, and a cab with a 12" Cannabis Rex, so I can use either or both cabs with the PA heads. I mic a speaker to the main PA when needed.
Sometimes I use my Electro-Harmonix 44 Magnum with one of the cabs. I sat in with Kilborn Alley for part of two sets on Friday and used the 44 Magnum with a Lil' Buddy. This is my "sit in" rig. No speaker mic'ing, and was heard throughout a medium sized room at the Iron Post in Urbana.
Nothing I use is very heavy, in part because the cabs are separate. I value my back!
If you don't mind the weight and have the money, get a big boutique amp and you will be happy. Otherwise, save your cash and your back, use a smaller amp as your monitor, and let the PA take care of the front of the house sound. ----------
I had a Bassman RI.. that is until I carried it up 4 flights of stairs at 3:00 AM. Sold soon after..
I'm with Doug S.. Also, Mission and Harp Gear have direct outputs that you could put into the PA when necessary. In the scale of cost for boutique amps, both seem to be very reasonably priced for what you get. Just go check out Victoria's and they'll both look like a bargain!
I am using the VHT Special 6 with the alnicomagnet harp mod. This gives you a line out. In my bass playing days I used a Vox AC30 Bass which only had 2 x 12..... that was enough to carry!
David Barrett has an excellent series of videos on his blues harmonica dot com site which deal specifically with setting up a bass man for stage work. I recommend them if you want to spend the money. I think it's $17 for a month. Heaps of other great stuff to help you get your money's worth too. This idea of mic-ing a small amp is great if you can do that. I think there are limits though. Wouldn't work in my band. Re boutique amps, I recall a conversation with Ian Collard about his amps. He told me that he replaced his bassman with a sonny jr, I've forgotten which model. Anyway he spent a lot of time with it and still had problems hearing it at times. One day at a festival he used the bassman which was on stage and discovered it delivered far better than his boutique amp. His advice to me was essentially that it doesn't really get much better than the bassman and that you can spend plenty time and money looking for a magic fix which doesn't really exist. I have a modded HR Deville. It's not a perfect solution either but I've stopped looking. It'll do. ----------
I agree with SuperBee. A well set up Bassman RI is really hard to beat.
But there is certainly a place for smaller giggable amps, such as the Mission 32-20. Grab n go, no pedals needed, nothing. Just a mic and cable and your harp kit. It has plenty of balls for a loud jam and wonderful textured tone. 35 watts in 35 pounds with my 1x12 model.
Yeah man, I'm getting anxious for my 2x10!! Maybe a month out.. If it shows up at your jam for a test run let me know. ;-)
On your list of bad amps.. I've had 2. First was a Peavey Delta Blues.. bad bad bad. And I'm selling my Blues Jr. to a guitar player where it belongs. No offense to those using them!
I always find it comical when people complain about lifting a 45 pound amp and struggling with it. Makes me chuckle! We have girls at our gym that RUN a mile carrying a 45 pound plate. Lol
For me personally, the hg2 lined out works fine. I am too weak to carry anything heavier
Last Edited by on Oct 24, 2012 6:54 PM
So - I pulled the trigger on 90s '59 Bassman reissue. Thanks everyone for their input. I'll let you know how it sounds. Fortunately, I have a harp buddy who loves to do tweaks and has had four or five of these over the years (along with Zoos, Sonny Jrs., and so on) so I'm sure he can help if necessary. Rich
I've sort of followed the Bassman Chronicles from afar. I've heard David's reissue Bassman and Mark Overman's reissue Bassman. They sound great. I've played through Mark's amp. We've talked about the speaker swaps and the tube swap that he made along the way and how he got started fooling around with the reissue. Both of those guys know tone. The changes that they have made to those amps sound great. They don't come without cost.
I was planning on traveling that route. Instead, Greg Heumann cut me an offer that I couldn't refuse on his Super Sonny. I've been happy with that amp. I've had that amp for two or three years before I considered buying another.
Personally, I like the bigger amps. Having an amp that is too small is aggravating. Many of the places that I play don't have sound guys. Mic'ing up a small amp and dialing it in is a royal pain in the ass.
To each their own.
I played through a Princeton Recording Amp the last time I went to the jam at Ziggies. I didn't like it. I ended up playing through the PA.
@Rgsccr- congrats. Once your friend helps you get it dialed in you will be in love. Wonderful powerfull crunch - with fidelity. It sounds like an oxymoron, but that's what it does.
Joe_L - We gotta do a blues harp amp club sometime, at least once, and honk on each others gear.
@rdfindly - I had that amp for a while. The funkiest (in a good way) lookin little thing you can blow through. Great with harp too. Here I am demo-ing it for the ebay sale.
----------
Last Edited by on Oct 24, 2012 11:47 PM
Sure thing! Greg and I have been exchanging e-mail about bringing my latest acquisition, a Mission 32-30 in the 1x12 config, to the Redwood City Blues Jam. I was hoping to make it tonight, but I got buried doing other stuff.
The 90s bassman comes stock with some of the best speakers in a stock amp period. The only thing I have seen that sounds as good but different in that era bassman is swapping in 2 ceramic webers. Mixing magnets works well. The eminence blue frames are really hard to beat. Next to impossible if they are well broken in.
Also a bassman is quite light with 4 emi blue frames. Once you start adding ceramic speakers the weight adds up b
among the amps i've tried for harp: fender hot rod deluxe, peavey classic 50, pignose g40v, rolan cube made for keys, the list goes on. i currently use a 25 watt or less Silvertone 1482 and it has worked well for me for a long time. i recently sold off a very nice '59 bassman replica i had built by Steve Clark of Sligo Amps. you may want to look him up, he does really great work. BUT it was not cheap even 5 years ago. and it was hard to haul esp if i wasn't making money with it. a smaller amp- single 12 with a couple of mods- may serve you better esp if you bring along a mic to run it to the p.a. in big or loud rooms. total stuff to carry is under 30# and is an amp, mic, and p.a. mic and cable. maybe a harp delay pedal as well. 1 amp, one briefcase and you're there! ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
A Mission 32-30 ?? - very sweet. Let me know when you're bringing it to the Redwood City Jam. I've strongly considered selling off some of the heard to pick one up. RIght now I'm still falling in love wtih the Bassman, and I almost have the Gibson GA6 humming like a vintage tweed - Plus my old 100 watt franken-fender is kicking ass again. Love to try your Mission though. My email is in my profile. ----------
Note that there have been TWO models of '59 Bassman reissue since 1990. The first was just called the Reissue - the second was called the Bassman LTD. The latter is a higher quality amp with better cabinet (finger-jointed pine like the original, not plywood) and a tube rectifier.
Either will make good amps with some work but I've heard them out of the box side by side and the LTD model was the better amp for sure.
For me, having a big 4x10 amp is really out of the question. A] the cost here in Europe is really prohibitive, and B] I get to 98 percent of my gigs via public transportation. No way I'm lugging a Bassman on/off the bus, tram and metros!
With that said, if I were still in the States and were looking for a big amp (on a budget), I'll save up $800 or $900 and just sit and wait. Watch that big auction site, and Harp-L, and the sale thread here on this forum like a hawk. With patience, you can find some killer deals for sure.
Thanks Rick. When one of my amps leaves my domicile it's a little like sending a kid off to college, - knowing they'll never return. It's tough on the old man (snif) - but sometimes it's gotta be done. Especially if I want the boss's permission to get another one . ----------
I had a Bassman LTD. I didn't like it very much. The reissue Jensen speakers sounded really brittle and harsh to me. I sold it to a guitar player who was happy as could be.
I felt the original '59 Bassman reissue with the blue frame Eminence speakers sounded better. I've seen the original reissues selling for as low as $500 (US). That's a pretty darn good deal. If I had one with the blue frame Eminence speakers, I would re-tube and play it until it stopped working. I would get it fixed and play it some more.
I never thought of it as heavy. A bit bulky and awkward, yes, but not heavy.
I did swap in one lil-buddy 10" - and one ten incher I had around from an old Yamaha amp. It does make the amp heavier - but worth it. My RI was not the limited but had those Jensen's anyway. They are pretty bad. Anjela's instruments has had these which I assume are the blue frame. Out of stock now - but I think I saw them in stock not long ago. http://angela.com/fenderspeaker108ohm30wattvintagebluealnico.aspx ----------
So... since we're talking about 4x10s-- I'm still playing through my '62 Concert, which still sounds pretty good to me. It's sort of a Bassman, right?
I love the sound of big amps, as opposed to mic'ing or lining the amp to the P.A. I want my harp to have its own location (e.g. stage right) instead of the same location as everything else (e.g. P.A. towers, right and left).
Just as acoustic musical performances have a sense of left/right space.
@Bonedog re: "We gotta do a blues harp amp club sometime, at least once, and honk on each others gear"
Between you, Joe, Me, Aki, and a bunch of other guys around here we could really have a time. We have a BUNCH of great amps between us! ---------- /Greg
The Jensen reissues are cosmetically the same as the originals, but sonically a different animal and if you put in the speakers from the first reissues that were3 made by Eminence into the the LTD, they'd sound better. The LTD cabinet is finger jointed Ponderosa Pine, just like the real deal, which I still own and play sinced I got in in 1983. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Joe_L wrote: "I've seen the original reissues selling for as low as $500 (US). That's a pretty darn good deal. If I had one with the blue frame Eminence speakers, I would re-tube and play it until it stopped working. I would get it fixed and play it some more.
I never thought of it as heavy. A bit bulky and awkward, yes, but not heavy."
=======================
I completely agree with Joe. For the price, it's a killer amp. I really miss mine. But even though I sold it in 2003, I can still listen to it once in awhile (Jason R. used it for several of the cuts on his 'Feel Good Funk' CD when we both lived in Florida).
Re. Harp amp club: glad your into it Greg. We should start a separate thread - or email list I suppose.
Re.weight of the bassman. With original speakers it's pretty darn light - especially for a 410. Swapping in alternatives like the lil buddy add considerable,weight. ----------
CarlA, I don't know how much a good tweaked Bassman costs. They rarely come up for sale, and you would almost certainly want to tweak it more after you bought it. I suggest you look for a stock '59 Bassman RI and start doing the tweaks yourself, starting with just tubes. You will learn a lot and I know you will find it rewarding.
One thing you will want to do to an early Bassman RI is to lacquer it. They are un-lacquered and the tweed may be faded and yellow. Ugly. That's how mine looked when I got it.
Stain it with MinWax Polyshades Satin Classic Oak. A half-pint can will be enough for two coats. It gives the amp a very nice golden relic look and keeps the tweed from fraying.
I don't think that the original reissue Bassman needs to be tweaked to be a "good harp amp". Maybe a tube change and let it rip. I've played through many of them that have been unaltered, except for tube changes.
If you bring your 'A' game, they are a fine sounding amp. If you don't have an 'A' game, you had better hurry up and get one. There is no point in waiting around.
I can tell you that the 90s '59 Bassman RI that I bought on Ebay cost $555 including shipping. I haven't received it yet but seller (who does take returns) said it sounded cool when a friend played it (guitar). Of course, I don't know how it will sound for harp, but a pro harp playing friend who has one (along with a Super Cruncher and assorted other amps)had me pick up some tubes to replace what he suspects is in the amp currently (or to be spares) based on what he's had good success. A 12AY7, 12AU7, 12AT7 and a 5U4GB (all GE NOS tubes) cost about another $60 total . My friend thought the speakers that are currently in the amp will be fine. So, for around $600 I should be pretty well set.
I have a Bassman LTD and it's a great amp. I bought 4 used blue eminence and put in to it: It sound great with those speakers. But you can put in one or two Jensen Jet Tornado to soften it up instead. Mixed speakers in a Bassman is great.
It will likely have the preffered blue frame speakers - a good thing. I would still strongly reccomend having an adjustable bias pot installed though. The amp gives up that beautiful grind when biased 'cold' - and you can't dial that in to your liking without the adjustable pot.
re. the tube recitfier. - That is a very easy 'mod' to do - I wouldn't even consider it a 'mod' . The solid state rectifier that comes with it is plugged into a tube socket. Just remove it and pop in a proper tube.
re. Laquer, - oh year, forgot to mention that. The non LTD's are un-laquered and I agree with Rick - laquering is a good idea, for looks as well as durabillity. It's a bit labor intensive but not difficult. It's something you can put on the 'B' list after you get your sound dialed in.
Sounds like you are getting a really good amp for a very fair price - especially with the shipping included.
@CarlA - I found mine in ex. condition for $450 - but it's the only one I've seen around here for less than $600. It was un-laquered and had the green speakers , plus needed the bias pot mod. I did all the work myself so my only extra cost was to replace two of the speakers. Not sure what you'de pay for a good tech to do it. ----------
Last Edited by on Oct 28, 2012 11:55 AM
