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Traynor yvc40 wr amp
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Rgsccr
104 posts
Oct 18, 2012
11:37 PM
Any opinions on this amp? I see one of Ebay at a seemingly good price, and I think I remember someone saying that Traynor makes pretty good amps for harps. If so, what about this model. I am considering different ways to be loud enough at blues jams. So far, I have miced my Brugera V5 to a friend's Mackie SRM 450 which worked pretty well. However, as several people have told me, that is a lot of gear to tote to a jam and set up.
rainman
24 posts
Oct 19, 2012
3:42 AM
I asked the same question about the Traynor YVC80 I found a good price on a couple weeks ago and didn't get a response on this forum. I was told on another that the voicing is on the bright side and that was a concern for sure. Most guitar owners seem happy with them but didn't find a harp owner to visit with so I passed it up.
Martin
148 posts
Oct 19, 2012
5:35 AM
Used to own one of those, and yes, definitely on the bright side of life: required very careful tweaking, in my case from a Boss parametric EQ, before it was even remotely harmonica friendly.
A big thing and not very loud; can“t say I recommend it for exclusive harmonica use, but I liked it for guitar.
Got mine for a good price but traded it for a Roland Mobile. No regrets.
/Martin
Rick Davis
826 posts
Oct 19, 2012
8:33 AM
Just fork out the money for a good custom harp amp and be done with it: Mission Harp Amps

Under $1200.00. Loud enough for a raucous blues jam, outstanding tone for recording.



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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog

Last Edited by on Oct 19, 2012 8:35 AM
HarpNinja
2794 posts
Oct 19, 2012
8:40 AM
If you are looking grab and go and something like the Mackie is always around, just take a pedal or play straight through the PA.


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Mike
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LSC
325 posts
Oct 19, 2012
9:30 AM
+1 for HarpNinjas suggestion. I have to admit at one point being guilty of thinking I needed an amp to get the sound I wanted in a situation with a loud band. A particularly daft idea considering I'd done hundreds of shows with just the vocal mic. Sure it's not the so called "Chicago" sound but what you're actually playing certainly comes across, the melody lines, phrases, chord work, tone of the instrument itself, etc. That really should be the main point of the exercise IMHO.

BTW, one of the best harmonica tones I ever heard was James Cotton through the nearest vocal mic jamming with Johnny Winter (not exactly known for subdued volume). The FOH guy had Cotton dialed in by about 8 bars and the sound was enormous. Cotton just walked on, pulled a harp out of his shirt pocket, blew the roof off, then walked off to thunderous applause. Job done.

As has been stated loads of time a Kalamazoo is also great choice if you really want to have an amp. I would suggest swapping out the CTS speaker for a Weber 10a100. You'll find it gives a definite, though not dramatic, lift in volume and headroom before feedback. If you still think that's not enough, and you don't mind the extra hassle and set up time, bring along a Sennheiser e609 and an extra mic cable. Drop that in front of the Zoo and you're good for most any situation.

@Rick Davis - Wouldn't your constant promotion of Mission Amps be more appropriate in the For Sale section?
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LSC
Rgsccr
105 posts
Oct 19, 2012
9:46 AM
Thanks guys - sorry to keep bringing these odd ball amps up, at this point I just don't know enough to make educated decisions. Also, I just can't fork out money for something like Rick mentions (or other comparable equipment). Anyway, I am learning a lot - thanks again.
Rick Davis
827 posts
Oct 19, 2012
10:31 AM
LSC, forgive me for having an opinion and sharing it.

Forum members frequently write about their favorite gear. Should all the comments praising Greg Heumann's products (including my comments) be banned? I don't think so.

I think lots of harp players would agree that rather than futzing around with guitar amps it makes sense to spend the bucks for a good harp amp.

After having hosted a large blues jam for more than three years and watching scores of new harp players bring in small amps (with and without mics and cables as you suggest) I can tell you with great certainty that Rgsccr's experience will be much better if instead of listening to bad advice he saves up and buys an amp that is actually up to the job. Trust me on this: Players who bring a 30+ watt harp amp to a jam are a lot more likely to enjoy it than those who bring small amps. -- Faster setup with predictable sound,and they can hear themselves and get better tone.

Sure, tiny amps can sound great in the right environment. Loud blues jams are not the right environment.

BTW - That is my amp in the photo, at a gig on the outdoor stage at the Alibi Pub in Laramie, WY. It is not for sale, and I don't have any business relationship with Mission Amps. I just believe in their products.

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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog

Last Edited by on Oct 19, 2012 10:41 AM
Rgsccr
107 posts
Oct 19, 2012
12:15 PM
Rick and others - not to belabor this question, but I guess one reason that someone with a knowledge level like me - i.e. very limited - might wonder about these types of amps is that (I assume) most harp players would agree that a "guitar" amp like a Fender Bassman could be a good choice as a harp amp. Is that correct? If so, then there must be other guitar amps, not built by Fender and not built expresslty for harp, that one might consider. Therefore, when someone like me sees other guitar amps like the Traynor available it seems logical to inquire if they might work well - some guitar amps do, others obviously don't. Given that, I assume that there are other good routes to go beyond buying a custom made "harp" amp, true? Rick, I certainly defer to your experience as a harp player and jam host in terms of using a loud enough amp rather than carting a bunch of equipment. I will say that what I've done with the Brugera and Mackie has been manageable as I've arrived early, set them up on stage (but out of the way) with all cords etc. connected. - including the Sennheiser cord dangling in front of the Brugera. Then, all I've had to do when it was my turn was flip a couple of switches, as I have a pretty good idea of what settings I want. Nonetheless, I may want to go the route of bigger amp rather than buy my own powered speaker. Anyway, thanks again for all the good advice.

Last Edited by on Oct 19, 2012 12:21 PM
LSC
326 posts
Oct 20, 2012
11:56 AM
@Rgccr- It is quite valid to explore all possibilities and yes, there are other guitar amps besides a Bassman that can work quite well including some obscure brands. There are several factors one should look at when deciding, "What do I need to enjoy myself at this jam?"

One can not deny, as a generality, that a bigger more powerful amp is a cool thing to have at a jam, there are several questions though. Since Rgsccr appears to not be a gigging player or likely to be in the near future, does it make sense to spend a grand or better for a jam amp? Is it worth what will be lost in instant depreciation if the "boutique" amp is bought new? Is it worth the hassle of the weight of the thing? Is it worth taking a chance on the $1000+ investment becoming the victim of calamity? All this to perhaps only get to play three tunes, the usual jam limit. Maybe, if one has money to burn and if so, go for it.

For the vast majority of the history of amplified harmonica guitar amps were the only choice. Dedicated harp amps are a relatively recent option. To make a guitar amp more harp friendly swapping preamp tubes alone can make a huge difference and is hardly difficult. No real technical knowledge or skill is required. You pull out one tube and stick in another. The choices for tube type are all over this forum for a start. And some guitar amps are more friendly than others. Looking at a Traynor is not so crazy. They are often called, "The Canadian Fender".

As far as the validity of "tiny" amps, it's not how big you make it, it's how you make it big. In my experience of jams, which I would match with anybody, if a harp player can't be heard with a mic'd decent 1x10 then the general stage volume should perhaps be looked at. Hell, I've put my Zoo up against a 100 watt Twin and was asked to turn down! There are even "boutique" options such as the HG2, which are small yet cut like a pissed off chainsaw.

I would also submit that offering alternatives to an expensive purpose built harp amp is not "bad advice". Small amps can work. Myself and many others have done it. Playing straight into the PA can work. Myself and many others have done it. Pedals such as the Harp Commander and Harp Break can work. Myself and many others have done it. Just because a suggestion is offered which may differ from ones own opinion does not make it "bad" or any less valid.
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LSC
Rgsccr
109 posts
Oct 20, 2012
2:54 PM
LSC - you've got me pegged pretty accurately. As you said, I am only going to jams at this point and it is likely to stay that way for a while, perhaps forever. So, the idea of spending a grand or more on an amp (or even much above five hundred) is a little hard to justify, although not out of the question. Anyway, I appreciate the points of view and advice from all quarters.
Rick Davis
834 posts
Oct 20, 2012
3:40 PM
LSC - the amp in the picture weighs in at less than 35 pounds. Pretty easy to carry.

In Rgscccr's post he was worried about being loud enough at his jam. That's pretty common among new players, and they often end up in forums asking for advice. Most of what they get is bad. Turning a high-gain shrill guitar amp into a passable harp amp is WAY more complex and expensive than just jamming some new tubes in it and throwing a pedal in front of it. And the ultimate price in time and money can be quite high. What they usually end up with is junk; a horrible-sounding harp amp. I've seen it a hundred times.

One challenge that faces new players trying to modify an amp is that they don't really know what they are listening for. Having never owned a good harp amp they don't really know the characteristics. That is one reason it makes sense to save money and go for an amp that is already sorted.

You wrote: "For the vast majority of the history of amplified harmonica guitar amps were the only choice." That is wrong. The best choices were 50s tube PA amps.

If you were not mic'ed up -- if the jam host could not accommodate that -- there is no way your k-zoo amp could be heard on a loud jam stage. That is absurd. Even if you were mic'ed up, you likely could not hear yourself -- once again if the jam host could not accommodate you. Jams are chaotic and disorganized, which is one thing that makes them fun!

Same with the HG2, which is a very fine amp. But without a lot of sympathy from the jam host and from the other players there is no way it can be heard. You can't suspend the laws of physics and acoustics.

Here is the best advice for anyone facing this issue:

1- Use the line out (headphones jack) in your amp to connect to the PA mixer. Ask the jam host to put you in the monitors.

or

2- Just step up to the vocal mic and play. It is probably already in the monitors. Don't grab it right away and cup it tightly and play a big bend. That is a sure way to look like an idiot and piss off everybody there. It will be way too loud and will probably scream with feedback. Try playing it acoustically on the mic stand. This is what I suggest to new players who bring in tiny amps that have just zero chance of keeping up.

or

3- Save up and buy an amp meant for what you are trying to do.

BTW, at my jam last week a good local player brought in a Fender Princeton Reverb RI. Great tone, but it was completely over-matched on a stage with other players. The set was not excessively loud, but the harp was MIA.



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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
bonedog569
671 posts
Oct 21, 2012
8:36 AM
What Rick said. All the 'direct' options - and micing options, depend on the sound man being super sharp - , giving a damn about you - and having the time to set your levels correctly. I wouldn't count on any of the above in a jam setting.

The vocal mic will be loud enough and it will be in you monitor. You will be heard on stage and in the audience. As Rick said - you need to approach it with a bit of caution because playing it like a bullet mic - you will likely be way too loud. Before you get onstage you might ask the sound guy for a little reverb on you mic. That's something he can do easily. Sonny Boy Williamson 11 and other 'Chicago' harp players played through the pa mic . Watch his videos.

Also ditto to his advice on amps. If you want a long lasting hobby of slowly learning about tube amps - then start buying and selling and experimenting with that traynor and the like. It's a fun hobby but won't get you onstage with a good sounding harp amp very soon.

The bassman is not a typical guitar amp by the way. It was designed as a bass amp in the 50s. It's a different beast than more modern guitar amps. I did find a reissue for bassman for $450. But even then I had to mod it with a bias pot and speaker swaps to dial in the tone. Is a fantastic amp now but it took some work.
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Rick Davis
836 posts
Oct 21, 2012
9:56 AM
Blues jams are not "Harp Jams." They are mostly for guitar players, and as you know the performance interests of the two groups can be different. You have to play by the rules that exist. The best way to do that is to have an amp that is up to the job.

The guitar jammers have been waiting just as long as you to get up there and show their stuff, and you cannot reasonably expect them to be too worried about your comfort level on stage. Blues jams are Darwinist.

Speaking of guitar players.... I could tell you stories, man. It is actually rather frequent that a guitar player will show up at my jam without a guitar. I can kind of understand... When he left the house maybe he was not planning on ending up at Ziggies. I try to find someone willing to loan him an axe. But the goofballs that amaze me are guitar players who show up with a guitar, but no cable, amp, strap, or picks! I am serious.

There are all types at the jams; some very interesting characters, 99% of whom are great people.

BTW... It all happens again tonight at Ziggies. If you are in the Denver area you are welcome to come by and play. Don't bring an amp; you can use my hot-rodded Bassman that can out-muscle almost any jam rat. I'll have the Mission amp pictued above there for you to try as well.





Here is the Craigslist ad


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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog

Last Edited by on Oct 21, 2012 10:05 AM
walterharp
960 posts
Oct 21, 2012
10:16 AM
Probably if you want to get into a louder harp amp for the least amount of money, then a Fender Bassman reissue used is the best bet.. you can probably sell it back for about what you paid for it if you want to trade up to a custom harp amp. However, if you throw a bunch of mods on it (or have an amp tech do it) then it is a custom harp amp and you might have difficulty selling it for what you put into it.
Rick Davis
837 posts
Oct 21, 2012
10:28 AM
Walter is right.

I paid $500 for my used 1991 Bassman RI. Bonedog paid $450 for his. I put maybe $250 into upgrades The whole saga can be found at The Blues Harp Amps blog.

When I conducted the harp amp poll last year I found that among pro gigging players the Bassman RI was the amp they used most, by far. That is what prompted me to buy one.


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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
Rgsccr
110 posts
Oct 21, 2012
11:23 AM
Thanks guys.


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