Andrew
213 posts
Apr 20, 2009
12:24 AM
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Picked up my Bb MB last night to play along with Sonny Terry, and the bastard is still leaky even though I've embossed it twice! My Seydel Solist Pro is barely any better, so I just ordered a MB deluxe in Bb, and I'm going to strip the MB and seal the comb to see if that works. If the Deluxe is no good, I swear it's the last harp I ever buy!
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DaDoom
86 posts
Apr 20, 2009
12:34 AM
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Hey Andrew
Sorry to hear that. I guess what you need most when buying harps is enough luck to pick the good ones :)
I bought my first Seydel on Friday - also a Bb. It's a simple Blues Solist. It plays great. Solid tone and nice, easy bends. The 5 and 6 OB worked OTB - just e bit of squealing when holding the note. Did some re-gaping on the 4 but the OB is not ideal yet. The Seydel reeds seem quite thin and very sensitive. Must be very soft brass they are using. So one must be careful when working on the reeds. I'll give it another go tonight, see if I can perfect it.
Let me know how the Deluxe is: that one is still absent in my collection ;)
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Andrew
214 posts
Apr 20, 2009
6:09 AM
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Or maybe when the deluxe arrives, I can follow DeFord Bailey's advice and throw the MB in a bucket of water for a week!
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 6:10 AM
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Buddha
272 posts
Apr 20, 2009
6:18 AM
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Andrew, your issue is exactly the reason you should buy a custom harp from somebody like Joe Spiers or another builder that know what he's doing. You would have saved lots of time and money and you'd end up with a harp is multitudes better than the MB Deluxe.
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Andrew
215 posts
Apr 20, 2009
6:53 AM
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I will one day, Chris, but not just yet.(how do you accept payment, btw - I don't do much internet shopping yet? and currency conversion complicates things)
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 6:55 AM
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tookatooka
202 posts
Apr 20, 2009
6:57 AM
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Have you tried a Suzuki Andrew?
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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Andrew
216 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:32 AM
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I haven't tried a Suzuki. I didn't want to go on a wild goose chase trying everything, as I was more than happy with my other MB deluxe (I don't have a problem with wooden combs, but maybe that's because I don't play them as much as I should). But now that you mention it, I do feel guilty that I haven't tried a Suzuki.
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 7:32 AM
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chromaticblues
2 posts
Apr 20, 2009
12:12 PM
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Andrew I went thru the same thing not long ago. The fact of the matter is: Harps are low quality instruments that are getting expensive to buy! The only way you can gain anything from this is learn to work on harps yourself and it sounds like now is a good time! The next couple of months will be tough, but once you come out the other side. Man will it be worth it!
If you need any direction at all. Trust me I've been there, done that!
Email me if you need help sbaker60@cox.net
I've been buiding my own harps for awhile now and what a difference!! You can't imagine how fun it is playing a great harp! There is a short list of things you need to be able to before you can make good harps and I'll explain them. Its not that hard.
Oh I almost forgot. No I'm not charging anybody anything!! Its just knowledge!!!
Do with it what you will
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 12:15 PM
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jonsparrow
125 posts
Apr 20, 2009
12:28 PM
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some one should make a thread on how to fully customize a harp. sealin the comb etc... you see alot of stuff on gapping an embossing but its hard to find stuff on how to seal a comb.
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Preston
288 posts
Apr 20, 2009
12:31 PM
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Here's a link from another thread on sealing with Beeswax. Works great.
http://www.harpl.com/200188818.html
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Andrew
217 posts
Apr 20, 2009
12:47 PM
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Thanks Chromatic and Preston.
I've had a quick read of that page. He says: -
>>3/8" is sometimes too short for the covers and the
thread won't bite, in which case I go to a 7/16"
length. I try the 3/8" because the 7/16" shaft
sticks out a bit past the nut.<<
It is actually possible to saw off the ends of screws. If you have the right size saw blade and can saw cleanly and understand the shape of the screw thread and can clean the screw up afterwards, then you can do it cleanly enough for a nut to screw on perfectly, so 7/16" sawn to size sounds beast. I never liked metalwork tho! Thinking about it, what does he mean 3/8 is too small and 7/16 is too big? It doesn't make a lot of sense!
Also, the guy hasn't had the idea of keeping the wax hot in a bain-marie, which would be safer than the stove. But there are ideas for experiment. Lots of it I can ignore because I don't have a problem with the combs against my lips.
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 12:53 PM
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tookatooka
203 posts
Apr 20, 2009
1:09 PM
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If you screw the nut on before cutting the screw, the action of taking the nut off again will clean the thread of the screw.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
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jonsparrow
126 posts
Apr 20, 2009
1:11 PM
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thanks for the link preston
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Spl20
31 posts
Apr 20, 2009
11:07 PM
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I had a post on here about fixin my MB Deluxe to make it play nicer and I got some great advice I'm working on my 4th now but I followed the Elkriver advice. Youtube elkriver harmonicas and dave goes through all kinds of demo's on "How TO" good luck!
I would really love just to buy them all done, but I have found working on them to be therapeutic.
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Andrew
219 posts
Apr 21, 2009
12:14 AM
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SPL20, so let me get this straight - you prefer the SP20 to the MB Deluxe? Or are you factoring the price into that already?
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chromaticblues
3 posts
Apr 21, 2009
9:32 AM
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OK andrew are you ready? This is going to be long winded, but helpfull if you choose to do this!
This is how you work on your own harps in this exact sequence! First you gap your harp so that it works fine for you. Then you tune your harp with a cheap chromatic tuner( I have a korg that cost me $15). If you have never done that before just tune the blow 2,5 and 8 -10 cents low. Then draw 3 and 7 -10 cents low. All other notes tune to perfect pitch. O.K. thats how I do it. You can try tuning them done to -15 or even -20 cents if you want. Just don't go beyond -20 cents! You can also tune the draw 5 and 9 down -5,-10,-15 or -20 also. I don't like the way that sounds so I leave draw 5 and 9 at even pitch myself. I just want to explain your options and let you figure out what you like.
Next your ready to take the harp apart. You do not have to buy any screws or do any cutting. Anyone that tells you a harp with screws is better that one with nails is WRONG! If a harp is properly sealed it does not matter. It is also cheaper and eaier to do it with nails. Now to take the harp apart use reversable retaining ring pliers. You put the pliers in the 1 hole and open it up slowly untill the closest nail starts to come out. Then remove the nail with small side cutters. keep doing that untill your done. If you have trouble you can use a pocket knife wedged inbetween the reedplate and comb and pry gently.
Next sand the comb on a flat surface with 400 grit paper. I use a fine metal file to lay on top of the comb so it sands the comb evenly. Do that to both sides. Then dunk the comb in Watco Butcher Block. Take it out and roll it around on a rag or paper towel untill all the extra vanish is removed then dry it with the teeth facing up. The next day do the same thing. The third coat let it dry with the teeth down. I hang the comb on two nails inthe wall that are level. Then the forth day sand the top and bottom again lightly untill it is flat. Put a very light coat on the top part of the comb. Wait one hour then put the blow plate on. Flip it over and do the same to the other side. A couple of important steps here. When you put that last coat on the top and bottom it has to be as light a coat as you can possibly do. This is what seals it, but you can't put too much on or it will get on the reeds! I use a small ballpeen hammer and a punch to put the nalis in. Start from the center and work your way out. Always do the top of the conb first(blow plate). Most of the time if you do this right. You will not need to emboss the slots. I suggest buiding a couple like this first. Then if it isn't air tight enough for you you can emboss the slots when you have it apart.
I'm done!
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Preston
294 posts
Apr 21, 2009
9:46 AM
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That sounds awsome! But FOUR days is exactly why I use Beeswax instead. I can do four coats in an hour. It also smells real nice too.
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chromaticblues
8 posts
Apr 21, 2009
11:31 AM
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A nice smelling harp is a good harp!
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chromaticblues
9 posts
Apr 21, 2009
11:32 AM
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Seriously I haven't done it with beeswax, but yes putting the finnish on is a pain!
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chromaticblues
10 posts
Apr 21, 2009
11:36 AM
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It dries in six hours if your in a hurry! I do four harps at a time so I don't mind waiting to much.
But I do like the sound of the bees wax giving the harp a pleasent smell! I'll have to try that!!
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gene
172 posts
Apr 21, 2009
2:04 PM
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How 'bout making gaskets with Micropore tape?
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chromaticblues
11 posts
Apr 22, 2009
6:06 AM
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I strongly advise against it! Only because I have and it made my harp have less volume( I have done this with few different types of tape hoping to find one that sealed the harp with out changing sound quality).
What happens is the tape dampens the reed-plate which stops vibrations! So if you tongue block and slap your tongue against the harp as you sound a note. You make reeds vibrate by the slapping motion. If perfected this is a cool sounding little trick I haven't heard anyone talk about! But the tape kills this effect! Even chording gives off vibrations which translate into overtones! You'll just have less of that kind of thing going on. Some people don't mind or even know because it doesn't affect there style!
Everyone has to remember most of these harp modifications are geared towards people that overblow/draw. Every mod you do changes the harp! It doesn't just make it better. It makes it different. I have learned this all the hard way!! I hope I can help fellow harp players not spent needless time working on there harps. Instead of playing them!
If you want to become an expect at overblowing/drawing(and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm just drawing some lines in the sand)then visit OVERBLOW.com. That is an informative page, but be warned. I have not heard one harp tech say anything about how mods can adversely affect a harp! If you question this(and you should). I would like anyone that like Marine bands, Marine band deluxes or Special 20's do a little experiment.
Take a stock MB that plays well, a big buck custom from(I don't care who), A MBD that you think plays well and a special 20 with MB cover-plates that have been opened up in the back. This is what we really need to be talking about right here! MBD combs are partially sealed, custom harps are fully sealed, MB are not sealed at all and special 20's are plastic.
Lets start with the SP 20. Air tight, mouth sticks out a little which makes it easy play. Down side that sound muffled and crappy. I have found that put MB cover-plates on SP 20's gives new life to SP 20!
Next MBD. Over priced MB that is half sealed. Sounds brighter and louder because it is half sealed. But to all the people that play MB and love the way it sounds. Is the MBD a better harp? or a louder brighter harp? I think it is both, but you can't make it better without changing the way it sounds.
A $150 custom MB will be a wonderful harp to play, But does it sound like that stock MB that you like? NO!! It will be brighter and louder and you have to be careful because they are air tight you can flatten a reed faster and esaier!! So anyone that isn't a real good harp player that wants a $150 harp needs to think about some stuff first. What you didn't hear that on you tube!
The more work you do trying to perfect your MB the closer it gets to sounding like SP 20 with MB cover-plates!!!!!
It took me 2 years, alot of work and alot of money to find that out.
Please I would like to here what other people have found or think about all this, but first do the comparison test I mentioned. I think a lot of people that don't like SP 20's are going say holly sh#t! What we doing. Or just go buy yourself another $150 harp.
Last Edited by on Apr 22, 2009 7:51 AM
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bluemoon
4 posts
Apr 22, 2009
7:25 PM
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Very interesting reading. I stumbled across an article ( I can't remember where, it was not from Hohner tho) that stated that Hohner's reason for leaving the mating surfaces unsealed on the MB Deluxes was to keep the raw wood sound of the Marine Band. I thought it was hogwash and didn't think much about it until I just read this. Maybe their is something to it.
As far as modifications go, it comes back to the fact their is no free lunch. You always give up something to get something else. Only you know if what you give up is worth what you will get.
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