I really appreciate all the talented inventors/players that come up with all the alternate tunings. Power benders, chromatics, etc.. all provide a way to get those missing notes. Fantastic for many styles of play. Some phrasing and licks are possible that would otherwise be unavailable.
That said, I truly believe that for certain styles of slow, nasty blues that overbending is best, especially in 2nd position.
If you like to grind or wail on the 3 draw bend 1/2 step (flat 3rd or blue 3rd), and maybe go slighty above or below the desired pitch for effect...then playing the 6 overblow will give you the same options in the next octave up. You can also get this effect an octave higher on 10 blow bend full step. Overblowing allows you the same style effect in three octaves....the ability to waiver above and below the blue 3rd.
Another is the flat 5th. We all love to wail on the 1 draw and 4 draw (major 5th) and bend down to the flat 5th. THe 7 overdraw and 10 overdraw offer the option of playing the same licks in 4 octaves.
Also...draw bend on hole 3 and 4 have a slightly different color and timbre than unbents notes. Same for overblows and overdraws. The slight difference is great for blues.
Another is bending the 5 overblow up to play the root note in 2nd position. Very colorful for wailing or ending a phrase. Same note as 6 blow, just more flexible and expressive.
Like I said, I'm not cutting anyone and am very pleased the we have many more options available to us.
IMHO, however,for wailing around on key notes of the blues scale, in a gritty nasty style..overbending is best.
A newbie question...when did overblows become part of the harp technique? Like should I expect to hear it with Sonny Terry and Little Walter, or is it a more contemporary thing? (The impression I get is that it became popularized with Howard Levy, but I may be totally wrong)
I'm guessing as my ear gets better I'll figure it out, but I thought I'd ask....
I just made a video on my phone comparing a PowerBender-tuned harp to an Overblow Richter harp. I played licks that wailed on the blue third and the flat five mostly.
I have always been of the opinion that PowerBender draw bends sound better than overblows but in listening back to the video, they both sound the same. So there you go!
Two things though; first, it took me three years to get where I am with overbends while it took about three weeks to get those notes on a PowerBender. So if they both result in the same notes, which is really better? The second thing is that I still sound nothing like the great players. Just like listening to someone learn violin, it takes years before the overbends sound like real notes. I'm no Todd Parrott. But maybe had I not put aside the PowerBender last year to work on Richter overbends maybe I would be a better PowerBender player and the end result would be "better".
P.S. You mention alternate tunings - Todd Parrott uses an alternate tuning... He drops the 7 draw a half step.
joypog...It is more of a contemporary option for those that choose to take the time to learn it. I'm probably not best qualified to answer the history of OBs, but I do know Howard is one of the main players.
Arazajac...you bring up good points. It takes years to get the overbends to the point of control that allows wailing, bending, vibrato, and good tone. Players must decide if it is worth their time.
I look forward to your recording!
I will say that after much much much practice I am getting pleasing results with overbends. Just about to the point of "just another note" coming from muscle memory. I'm using them more and more in 1st, 3rd, and 5th position as well.
I'm really having fun going outside the box a little and experimenting with such things as double stops with one OB, double stops with two OBs, warbles with one or two OBs, bending the OBs 3 and 4, half steps while playing licks within this pocket.
Adam always suggests everyone be an innovator so I am trying my best.
I have heard other overbenders mention that learning the technique has made them better and more in control with the non-overbend notes.
I could not agree more.
I should probably invest in a Powerbender and give it my best shot for awhile. Are they available in GMs?
Edit: I took down the video. I watched it again and I am not happy with it. I hadn't picked up the Powerbender in months and was just trying to play notes rather than making music. I made my point in my previous post and only posted the video because Duane mentioned wanting to see it...
Thanks for your nice comments about the video, though, Duane...
arzajac...sounds to me like you are getting pretty darn good control of both overblows and overdraws! I hear the flat 3rd on the PB..different but both good!
@harpdude61: You make some good points about the bendability of overblows above and below the target note, but I think your opinion on their overall superiority over other ways to get extra chromatic expression on diatonic harps is coloured by these points:
1. You have invested a lot of time already in mastering overblows to a high level on Richter harps, and therefore are naturally resistant to learning other ways (alternate tunings, the Richter chromaticism of the SUB30 UltraBend). That's understandable.
2. You've invested a lot of time and money in creating your finely calibrated Overblow harps. Learning other methods would involve extra expense on more harps. Understandable also.
However, these are personal standpoints. Since you are familiar with the Richter tuning, I suggest you should try a customised version of the SUB30 before making a general statement about which route to chromaticism on the diatonic is superior.
Lots of overblowers tried it at SPAH and said the SUB30's soulful double-reed bending offered expression they can't get from overblows.
I'm not saying it's a better way to go, but it is indisputably faster to learn for most people - since it's based on normal bending technique, which any half-decent player has already mastered.
The stock UltraBend harp doesn't compare in sound with a customised overblow diatonic, but the customised version definitely does. Before making a general statement based on theory, give a customised UltraBend a try.
It may not replace your overblow predilection, but I think you'll like it nonetheless :-)
Last Edited by on Aug 19, 2012 4:50 AM
History of OB is covered well in the link posted above.
They did exist for a long time, but it was Howard Levy that brought this technique to the consciousness of many contemporary players in the 90's.
I believe the first seed were planted when Howard taught his exclusive week long course at Augusta Heritage Center in WV during the summer. He would only accept a maximum of 12 students. His earliest students included Carlos del Junco, Sandy Weltman, Dr. Henry Bahnson, Skankin' Frank Skanga, Paul Messinger, myself and others.
The concept spread out geometrically after this, as quite of few of the students became teachers while others became performer's of some notoriety who spread the sound of those "extra notes" amongst the masses.
Howard's first cassette recording "Harmonica Jazz" was a very rough sounding venture into OB territory. While challenging and innovative, the OB's sounded pretty terrible.
The gauntlet was thrown down and the evolution of this technique towards more seamless tone for OB's is on the rise, especially since this new technique is being absorbed by many very young players as part of the standard harmonica lexicon as a basis for diatonic technique. ---------- The Iceman
Brendan, the points 1 and 2 that you make are valid. I guess I'm wrong to say anything is best without giving them all a fair trial myself.
I am also guilty of trying the latest stock harp and probably not giving it a fair shake after playing customs all of the time.
My personal opinions probably don't carry much weight around here anyway. I think some are still laughing about the time I said I was a throat player...lol
My embrochure and style of play require full covers as is on a Golden Melody. Anything compatable in Sub-30 or Powerbender?
Iceman..Does Howard ever do those small classes any more? I would love to spend some class time and or one on one with the guy someday.
Here's a much more important message regarding any technique, be it overblows, bends, or anything else, and that's just because you know how to play them doesn't mean you have to use every tool in your shed to do the job. In blues, or in any other genre, just because you can play them doesn't mean you need to use them every single outing or you can quickly wind up not doing the single most important job, and that's expressing the mood of the piece and you can get too easily to a point where you wind up expressing your technique more than the what the tune is all about.
There are going to be times where even a bent note or an overblow, even if it's done correctly in terms of being in tune, may not really sound right with what's going on in the context of a particular tune, genre, etc., and you're on the verge of going into the classic trap too many players of every instrument fall into and that's one size fits all.
I will say this, and that for a player who plays too damned hard all the time, having them play a harp set up for playing overblows can actually be a good learning tool because harps set up that way are much more sensitive to the amount of breath force you use and the gap set up will make the harp choke up quicker for someone who plays too hard and it can be a good learning tool for somewho who wants to finally start learning what REAL breath control is all about, along with getting breathing and relaxation exercises from a vocal coach.
For traditional blues, I don't care for OB's in that setting, so I don't use them at all, but in other genres or its sub genres, it's fair game and in more of a rock setting, especially so. Some people may make the assumtion that I don't like OB's, but that would not be the case at all. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Bob...always great to hear your response to anything. Again, you make a great point. I have been guilty of using techniques just to "get them in". I will be the first to admit that sometimes I think my technical skills are more advanced than my musicality. I have been doing things to try to up my musicality. The main thing is listening more and playing less..plus really studying some top players.
I agree about harp set-up. When I got my Buddha harps I started relearning breathing techniques. I have always followed closely what you post in regard to relaxation and breathing.
I guess I'm a bit surprised by your last statement. Just seems that if you use 3 draw bent 1/2 step in any genre that the 6 OB, an octave higher would be a natural fit.
HArpdude61, it all comes down to one thing I keep saying, and that it's all about groove and feel. Think of it like this: if you were making a movie about the gangsters of the 20's and 30's like Al Capone and Bugsy Siegel, would you be tossing in cellphones and computers in there? Of course not, because first of all, they weren't invented at the time, plus it would look totally out of place. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
@joypog: Howard Levy brought overblows into jazz more than 25 years back. Will Scarlett and Mike Turk used them in a limited way during the 1970s, I believe. William Galison learned them from Howard Levy and showed me how to OB in 1987. I was recording them by 1989 (you can hear me use the 4, 5, and 6 OB on WORD ON THE STREET, the Satan & Adam release of several years back that I assembled from street tapes. Carlos del Junco was exploring them in a blues vein around then; you can hear OBS his debut release, BLUES (1993).
During that period, I attended countless shows in NYC and I never heard another blues player use them, nor did I hear overblows on any of the many contemporary blues recordings I purchased and stuff I listened to on blues radio shows. I was listening hard, hoping to hear overblows in blues contexts, but that's not what anybody was doing.
As far as I know, Carlos and I were the only two players around during that period (early 1990s) actively throwing overblows into amplified blues contexts. (In diatonic jazz contexts, they were somewhat more common.) I'd be happy to discover that I'm wrong about this, so I hope that others supplement/qualify what I'm writing here with additional information, recordings, etc. I'm not talking about an occasional overblow here and there. I'm talking about blues styles significantly formed by the chromaticism that overblows made possible.
By the late 1990s, Chris Michalek and Jason Ricci were both overblowing and recording overblows as intrinsic elements of funk and blues styles. And yes, Iceman has been doing this for a long time, too! I consider him a fellow toiler, and hard-timer, in this particular field.
It's not until the last five years that I've had a sense of a significant and growing cohort of younger blues players for whom overblowing is simply part of the contemporary trick bag. I'd like to think that this website and my own boosterism is responsible, but honestly, I think Jason's handful of albums and his ceaseless touring for much of the past decade has more to do with it.
Edited to add: If you're interested in hearing some ahead-of-the-time stuff, pick up a copy of Mike Turk's THE MOUTH THAT ROARED, a collection of his music from the 70s. There are definitely some overblows in this stuff:
http://www.miketurk.com/
"Me and the Devil," for example. The man was way ahead of his time.
Last Edited by on Aug 20, 2012 10:28 AM
Iceman and others, please weigh in. I think I'm hearing a scattering of 6ob's (Will Scarlett's) in this track, especially in the 3:18 - 3:23 point. The album, BARK, was released in 1971:
Kudzurunner, I suspect that your YT video series was responsible for a large number of learners, like me, becoming aware of and attempting overblows. I don't even modify my harps (apart from minimal gapping) and yet the 6ob is now part of my arsonal. I wouldn't sell your influence on this technique short. ----------
I remember back in the AL EICHLER "AMERICAN HARMONICA news letter MAGAZINE days" that Adam and Larry would be preaching the gospel of over blows loud and proud in the write ups they did!
on a somewhat related note... I will be posting a full report soon, but one of the great pleasures of my virgin SPAH experience was meeting and hanging out with Will Scarlett. What a wonderful guy.
@ kudzu...I hear OBs in the above video. Adam, you have no idea. YOU are the reason I became an OB freak. Your soprano challenge video is still something I practice regularly. I'm waiting to post something that is worthy of a response from you. I am consumed by the Gussow marker. It is that line that you cross when your playing post is good enough to catch Adam's attention. It is real and I have not crossed it yet, but I will. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate this. If you responded to every post of a player like me trying to take it up a notch..well..it would take all your time. Adam and Jason are my bigget OB influences..but a friend gave me a CD of this band and this guy uses OBs in a context I have not heard much. He uses them a lot in one chord blues. His style has been a big influence on me Have you passed the Gussow Marker?
Last Edited by on Aug 20, 2012 1:59 PM
One name should be far better known in the history of overblowing and the diatonic harmonica in general: Will Scarlett. I've been talking to Will quite a bit over recent years about his early experiments with both overblowing and the idea of adding a third reed to the chamber (which we both invented independently, but he was the first).
This man is a feckin' legend, and should be far better known and respected by modern-day overblowers, and all contemporary 10 hole harp players.
I've offered him all the space in my next regular article in the UK "Harmonica World" magazine to tell the story of his early experiments, in his own words, along with relevant sound clips and photos/drawings from the time.
I think that will lay to rest a lot of the hearsay, conjecture and rumour about who is the true pioneer of overblows on a systematic basis. From what Will has told me, he's The Man. I believe he has the evidence to back it up - we'll see.
Mind you, I have a lot of respect for Mike Turk also. I'd love to hear from him directly as well.
Last Edited by on Aug 20, 2012 2:22 PM
I hear repetitive 6ob around 3:03. At 3:18 I am hearing 8 inhale extreme bending to the 9 exhale. I've never really heard an 8 inhale bend down like this, as there is really not a lot of space below this particular floor. So, did Will use a special tuning to get this note to bend down or did he finesse it out of the harmonica?
(I finessed a lot of notes out of my harmonica after hearing Lee Oskar's "Lee Oskar Plays Beautiful Melodies" recording trying to duplicate what I heard. It was a conversation with Kitt Gamble - Lee's tech at the time - in which I learned that Lee used all kinds of alternate tunings, even ones not offered to the public, to achieve these missing notes. This started me on the path that eventually lead to Howard Levy). ---------- The Iceman
I believe Toots Theilemans played diatonic with overblows on a recording in the late sixties, wish I could find it. Scarlett overblows all the time on the Hot Tuna recordings.
Rick Estrin showed me an overblow for the first time and told me about Levy in 1985.
I could overblow a bit in 1993 when I met Larry at Augusta and he showed me more.
The turning point was taking 2 lessons from Adam in 1998. He did not tell me anything I didn't know, but he inspired me to get ALL the overblows.
Then I went crazy learning all 12 positions for every scale studying my behind off. Then I performed in all 12 keys at SPAH to great success, then at the first Rocking in the Rockies to great failure. The video of the SPAH performance received some criticism and I took it too hard and kinda gave up on working so hard on it. Recently I've been getting deeper into it again. I think Todd Parrott has gotten me reinterested as well as having a few Joe Spiers Stage 3 harps.
Will's 'voice' on the harp is so unique and singular. If you are aware of him you would recognize his sound in an instant. I've been puzzling over his technique for years and would love to hear him expand on what he does.
Third Week in Chelsea is a beautiful song - and like his work with Tuna, Will adds the perfect accompaniment and helps make it special. It's funny that I knew he was doing something different, - but hadn't heard of overblows - and wouldn't for years after grooving on those hot tuna albums. ----------
For me, this website and Adam's video's got me into overblowing (and playing good altogether). Think that's true for a lot of us.
I love overblows. I listen to trumpet a lot, and an overblow can give you 'that' sound, pushing a note up. Few days ago I checked (while tuning), and pushed a 4 OB up 3 semi-tones on a harp I worked on myself (did everything except embossing). Remember this was while tuning, so I used a stock GM comb (aren't they the best combs for tuning) without screws. This pushing up sounds completely different to letting a bend 'get up', because a bend moves towards stability, whereas an OB needs to be worked on if you're pushing this high, which I happen to like a lot.
I woulnd't want to lose this effect. As well: I think part of the blues tradition is to take a cheap instrument that is simple and elegant, and WORK on it. Putting in thirty reeds seems unnecessary and unelegant to me. And valves? I'm not into that.
I wish a company would make harps that don't squeech while bending and overdrawing, instead of trying to develop different instruments altogether. That seems harder to do though, as Harisson has made apparent.
This is not to say that these endevours should exclude one another obviously.
FreeWilly, the first thing you have to remember is that the harmonica was never designed to do 80% of what's being done on them presently. They were originally designed to be played in first position ONLY, plus it was also never designed for bending notes OR overblowing and players long after its invention in the mid 1800's came up with these things, so you have to put that in perspective and forget so many myths and lies being told about the instrument.
Remember that just because you know how to play something never means you have to throw the whole kitchen sink of knowledge every single moment or you wind up doing something you never want to be caught dead doing, and that's taking more time to express your technique than expressing the mood, feel, and the groove of the tune, which is why often times something extremely simple can come across quicker to the audience than the most technically complex that leaves an audience cold.
Pat Missin's website has so many alternative tunings listed for so many different things, but one has to remember, for every advantage these give you, something you normally have is taken away, plus the average player too often doesn't take enough time to know where they are and where all the notes, be it natural, bent, overblown, etc., and enough very basic music theory in order to use those things to their best advantage and because of that, they easily get lost and frustrated.
I still remember back in the mid 80's at the long defunct club Tam O'Shanter (The Tam) in Brookline, MA, where there was a private "Blue Lodge" party mainly of blues musicians, especially harp players, and Charlie Musselwhite was sitting next to me while we were both listening to Howard Levy in absolute amazement of what he was doing using this technique for jazz, doing stuff that usually only a chromatic player could do and about seemingly every minute and a half, Charlie kept asking me who the hell that was.
Mike Turk, who comes from my backyard here in Boston, MA, is simply one of the finest jazz harp players in the world, period and I've known him for a good 30 years and he got grants from the National Endowment of The Arts to study chromatic with both Toots as well as classical virtuoso Cham-Ber Huang. He now very rarely ever plays diatonic on a gig and as recently as 10 years ago told me that he now is almost an exclusively a chromatic player, and he is one helluva chromatic player. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Oh I'm all for pushing the boundaries on what a lucky strike of Herr Hohner gave us. I know even bends were unintentional. It's like this monk says in the great movie 'into great silence'. We shouldn't change the rituals, but find the meaning that lies within them.
Must be my fatalist character speaking...
Al this not to deter from the fact that I wholeheartedly agree with your statement about technique vs. expression.
