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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Help for an OB Idiot?
Help for an OB Idiot?
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AlexArkansas
8 posts
Jul 31, 2012
11:18 AM
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Just have to get this out there...I can't get an overblow to sound to save my life. I consider myself a solid intermediate/advanced intermediate in most respects. I've tried everything- Dr Gussow's reverse bend method, the late Buddha's bent straw method, Tinus at overblow.com's method, as well as several lower-profile tips on YouTube. I've taped reedplates, gapped, arced, tried high harps, low harps, Special 20's, Golden Melodies- everything I can think of. I'm starting to think that there's something fundamentally wrong with my embouchure. Has anyone else experienced this degree of frustration and finally "gotten it"? Any tips I haven't tried?
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timeistight
741 posts
Jul 31, 2012
11:28 AM
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I've "gotten it" so far as being able get 5 and 6 hole overblows pretty regularly, 4 hole not quite so often. What worked for me was working on blow bends in holes 8 and 7 (7 will bed down about a 1/4 tone) and then moving that embouchure down to 6,5 and 4.
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rogonzab
80 posts
Jul 31, 2012
11:30 AM
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It took me 6 month to play my first bend (what a rush was that!). Like you describe, I was convince that my ADN came whitout the "bend" part. Just like you I read almost all the info out there, but nothing work.
Until I did my first bend!
My advice: close the gap on you blow AND the drow reed. Then make the deepest bend you cant, and then just blow. If that does not work, just keep on doing it until you get it. Practice is the way to get it, constant and focus practice is the key
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Pistolcat
238 posts
Jul 31, 2012
11:34 AM
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I had some luck with finally getting the 6OB by just going from 6 blow to 6draw bend to 6 draw visualising (audialising?) a chromatic scale and then just blowing with my oral resonance chamber aiming for that next half step... Along with all of what you posted above, espicially the reverse bend thinking.
Oh, a somewhat well gapped harp helps too.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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florida-trader
168 posts
Jul 31, 2012
12:02 PM
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Alex. I am about 3-4 months removed from being you. I don't think I was as frustrated as you are. I just pretended that I didn't care and dismissed my inability to overblow as something I didn't need.
Pistolcat made a great point about just audialising (great word BTW). The first time I hit a clear overblow that actually sounded musical I wasn't "trying to overblow". I was just playing a song I was learning and "went" for a note that I thought should be there. It was more instinct than anything. Lo and behold, out popped a 6 overblow - clear as a bell.
The second thought is this. Using the right harp makes a huge difference. The harp I happened to be using that night was a Crossover A. I am reasonably confident that had I been using something a little lower on the totem pole of quality, I probably would not have hit the overblow. So while a good harp won't necessarily make you a better player, a bad harp will definitely make you a worse player (my opinion).
Rogonzab also provides some great advice. You have to set the gaps just right on both the draw plate and the blow plate. Too narrow and they will choke. Too wide and you can't overblow. So my suggestion is to use a high quality harp and gently adjust the gap until it hits you. If you can blow bend the 7,8,9 10 - then you should be able to overblow the 6 with a good harp properly gapped.
More and more I am convinced that you cannot be afraid to adjust the gapping. Think about it. If one of your harps just happens to be set up so you can overblow, wouldn't you want all of them to be? As soon as you step into that world, you need to be able to make the fine tune adjustments in your other harps that will enable you to have them all perform the same way.
I am not an expert on this stuff. I just happen to be living through these epiphanies as we speak so I've been giving this a lot of thought.
You will soon find that getting your harp to overblow is the easy part. Learning how to actually use them to make music is the hard part. But I'm getting there and so will you.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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Michael Rubin
628 posts
Jul 31, 2012
12:10 PM
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Alex, can you jam in first position in holes 7 thru 10 a la Jimmy Reed? I do not just mean that you are capable of blow bending. I mean really jam. Until you can, overblowing is going to be very hard.
However, I have taught many students to overblow via skype. If interested, contact me offlist Michaelrubinharmonica@gmail.com
Last Edited by on Jul 31, 2012 12:11 PM
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arzajac
833 posts
Jul 31, 2012
12:13 PM
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Here's something practical that anyone can do:
Take the coverplates off your harp.
Cover the 6 blow slot with your finger.
Pucker the 6 hole and try to blow bend. Adjust the size of your mouth cavity/air pocket. Try changing your tongue's position. Actually, adjust the middle of your tongue, the tip of your tongue should sit right at the base of your teeth relaxed.
If you can't get the overblow to sound (it's the draw reed that makes the overblow note) then try adjusting the reed gap or shape of the reed and try again. If you still can't get it, then work on your mouth position until you do.
Once you can comfortable pick the harp up, cover the 6 blow slot with your finger and hit the note, then you can try without the finger. You may have to tighten the blow reed gap.
Once you have that down, try it with the coverplates on.
I think this is a systematic approach when the note "just doesn't seem to be there." I actually went through the learning process again as I was learning tongue blocking. In playing the overblows TBed, they just weren't there. They were, it's just frustrating when you can't find them. This process makes it easier for you to "feel around".
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Last Edited by on Jul 31, 2012 12:14 PM
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Martin
105 posts
Aug 02, 2012
11:25 AM
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Pistolcat gives good advice; I´m not so very sure of the necessity to have the "right" harp -- but it certainly won´t make it harder.
I´ve never gapped, arced, taped a reed in my life, never played a custom harmonica. My first OB´s came by accident a long time ago: frustrated that you couldn´t bend 6 B I was blowing really hard and then suddenly heard this strange and un-beautiful sound coming out of the harp. Didn´t think much of it at the time, but much later when I took up harmonica playing again and read "The harp handbook" I realised that I´ve been there (like probably many thousands of harmonica players).
So, if you´ve tried it all: go for the aggressive approach (in tandem w/ some considerations of technique), and use an old harp. Aim at 6B.
But honestly, blowbending à la hole 7-10 while thinking about the note you´re trying to play is really good advice.
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Frank
958 posts
Aug 02, 2012
3:24 PM
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Has anyone else experienced this degree of frustration and finally "gotten it"? Any tips I haven't tried?
Tip #1 Don’t get Frustrated
#2 Remain Determined
#3 Focus / Visualize
#4 Breathe / Relax
#5 Try,Try Again
#6 Don’t Rush
#7 Release Expectations / Time limits
#8 Think
#9 Don’t get Frustrated
#10 Persevere Forever
#11 Your Not an Idiot
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dougharps
240 posts
Aug 02, 2012
4:01 PM
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It is OK to be struggling with this. Many have... including myself. Persist!
In 2007 Michael Peloquin taught me the descending blow bend approach to the 6OB (Blow bend 10, 9, 8, 7, then 6)and with months of intermittent practice attempts I succeeded in making the 6 OB squeal on demand. At Spah 2008 Chris M. taught his straw technique in a Filisko group class, and with his help my squeal sometimes became a note. If I recall correctly, everyone at his table with me at the Filisko tutorial room got at least one good 6OB before the time was up.
It took both these approaches and consistent attempts and practice to finally have it come together for me. After that lots of practice and refining... and practice and refining. I can now OB the 5 and 6, and usually the 4 if the harp is set up right. I am still working on technique on the 4.
For me, the 6OB fits nicely as a transitional note in 2nd position blues runs (flatted 3rd, Bb when playing in in G on a C harp), and the 6OB is the OB I use the most. I regularly incorporate the 6OB in public performance.
The 5OB is good on occasions when you need the major 7th in 2nd position, to avoid the Mixolydian mode flat 7, allowing you to play an F# when playing in G on a C harp. I use this less frequently than the 6OB, so far only when jamming with friends.
So far I am just working on stabilizing the 4OB to play it cleanly each time, and haven't used it in performance.
Chris M. ("Buddha") advocated that beginning players move into overblows after learning blow bending, viewing overblows as an equivalent technique to bending, and not as some esoteric technique. Bends and OBs both create notes through technique that are not available through blowing in drawing in basic fashion. Both techniques have challenges in creating a natural sounding note.
I think it may be easier to learn OBs when you haven't already developed a lifetime of playing habits that interfere with OBs. Also, having the harp set up right really makes a difference. I previously tended to play hard, and used to use wide gapping. I still play fairly hard, but have moderated this to allow tighter harp setup that supports overblows. When learning overblowing, be gentle.
I think Frank's tips apply.
And Michael Rubin is a fount of wisdom on technique and theory.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by on Aug 02, 2012 4:06 PM
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