528hemi
279 posts
Jul 28, 2012
5:17 PM
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Does a good Mic cord make a difference in tone when plugging into an amp? I have a $15.00 chord bought at the local music shop but saw alot more expensive ones?
528hemi
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Rick Davis
585 posts
Jul 28, 2012
5:39 PM
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The short answer is "No."
Your $15 cable will have zero sonic difference from a $60 cable. Some people will tell you otherwise, but many of them are trying to sell you something.
That is not to say that expensive cables aren't worth the money. The build quality and aesthetic appeal of good cables (to me anyway) make them worth the price. My main gigging cable is a Chuck Gurney tweed 20-foot cable. It was $45 plus $6 shipping.
But an exotic or expensive cable (say in the $50 to $100 range) will not sound better than your $15 Live Wire or similar cable.
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-Rick Davis
Last Edited by on Jul 28, 2012 5:40 PM
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528hemi
280 posts
Jul 28, 2012
7:05 PM
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Thanks Rick!
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Greg Heumann
1721 posts
Jul 28, 2012
8:30 PM
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Agree with Rick with emphasis on quality - cheap cables tend to have very poor strain relief, so typical cable abuse such as twisting stress between cable and connector, and stepping on the cable - will cause much earlier failure of a poorly made cable. Also poor cable quality can allow more noise/hum in noisy environments as shielding isn't as good. Mechanical quality is particular important with "screw-on" connector cables as the connector design itself doesn't have good strain relief built in - so quality suppliers must add their own ingenuity and quality to the mix.
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/Greg
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Rick Davis
586 posts
Jul 28, 2012
8:37 PM
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Agree with Greg 100 percent. His cables are extremely well made. The difference in quality and reliability is huge when compared to a $15 cable.
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-Rick Davis
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Chinaski
226 posts
Jul 29, 2012
2:18 AM
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I'd concur that paying a little more for cables will ensure better build quality as pointed out, but I may have to disagree with the 'zero sonic difference'.
I have A/B tested (and am planning to buy) one of these cables after numerous recommendations, and I'm pretty sure I can hear a difference.
http://www.chord.co.uk/products.php?pg=28
To my ear, it seems to have more presence and clarity that the cheaper cord I tried it against - I'm no audio expert though, so maybe one of the tech guys such as Greg may be able to expand on that?
Last Edited by on Jul 29, 2012 2:24 AM
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Rick Davis
587 posts
Jul 29, 2012
6:32 AM
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A good mid-price cable (such as a $15 Live Wire) will sound exactly the same as a premium cable. If you dig deep enough into the bargain bins at Guitar Center I'm sure you could find a faulty noisy example, but nobody is suggesting we should use those.
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-Rick Davis
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Chinaski
227 posts
Jul 29, 2012
6:46 AM
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Rick, the cable I tested it against was a good mid-price cable - no noise or fault. I maintain that there is a discernible difference in sound between the two.
I should add I was a little sceptical, until I tried this particular cable. Ultimately, I trust my ears.
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Rick Davis
588 posts
Jul 29, 2012
7:47 AM
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The Truth Behind Instrument Cables
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-Rick Davis
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Chinaski
228 posts
Jul 29, 2012
8:45 AM
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Yes, I'm aware of such articles/opinion, given that I've been playing for 25 years, Rick.
If anyone else wants to weigh in with anything useful, I'd be happy to discuss.
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walterharp
917 posts
Jul 29, 2012
9:51 AM
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This was discussed here pretty recently..
some of the top mic/ sound guys on the board disagree.. sort of
http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/3999005.htm
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5F6H
1295 posts
Jul 29, 2012
11:53 AM
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How ironic that an article called "the truth about instrument cables" should contain so many untruths! :-o
It's just as full of inaccuracies and errors as high end cable manufacturer's sales hyperbole.
All cables do not share the same conductor diameter, they don't even all share the same number of conductors (some have a drain wire as well as a shield). All cables are not made of the same dielectric material. All cables do not have braided shielding.
Use a cable you can afford, if you want to know if there are better/worse cables buy 2 and compare them. There is pretty well as much difference between regular (not dirt cheap, though some are pretty good) and high priced cables (note I refer to "high price", not quality, or "premium" or any other arbitrary term). Good cables are cables that sound good and can often be found at most of the price options.
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Last Edited by on Jul 29, 2012 11:55 AM
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Greg Heumann
1723 posts
Jul 29, 2012
8:29 PM
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I just remembered this response that happened a long time ago from a fellow named Joel Chappel:
Yikes!
Ok gang, I would much rather be asking why the #6-blow on my Super 64 sounds
raspy than getting into this cable discussion, but when I see the Ouija
boards and divining rods coming out, I must speak up. I won't bore you with
my credentials other than to say I am retired, spent 45 year as an
electrical design engineer in both Military and Commercial markets, equally
qualified in vacuum-tube and solid-state circuitry, and heavy into analog
design though I spent my later career in DSP mostly designing anti-aliasing
filters in A/D applications and recovery circuitry [filters and amplifiers]
for D/A applications]. Let me lead with my groin and say that anyone who
says he can differentiate audio quality vs. signal flow direction on a
symmetrical cable is playing with your and his own imagination, wire grain
or no. As I stated in an earlier post, if there is a PERCEIVED difference in
audio quality, then there is some other overlooked reactance in the signal
path where there is an impedance mis-match in the driving signal source, the
cable, or the recovery circuitry on the receiving end... or all three
simultaneously. Single-ended shielded cable has a characteristic impedance
of anywhere from 47-110 Ohms and for flat response needs to be driven with a
source impedance that matches and the receiving [recovery] amplifier should
also terminate at the cable characteristic in order to swamp-out the
reactance of the cable. Shielded twisted-pair wire should be driven
differentially following the same impedance requirements. High quality
instrumentation cable is typically 200-600 Ohm impedance. There is just so
much snake-oil marketing out there promoting pseudo-technology like giant
single-ended vacuum tube amplifiers, granite-slab turntables,
auto-jumper-wire sized speaker cables along with discussions about the
superiority of vacuum-tube audio over solid-state [not guitar amps, I
understand the desired clipping and distortion issue]...Again if there is a
PERCEIVED difference audio quality, then there is a scientific explanation
and not some critics super sensitive ears...most of which, blasted theirs
out back in the '60s...I didn't and at age 72 mine still work great. I'll
refrain from commenting on the use of microphones that are 80-year old
technology for another time. :-)
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/Greg
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5F6H
1296 posts
Jul 30, 2012
1:57 AM
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Hi Greg,
This seems to be a slightly different topic regarding "directional cables". Not something I have personally found to make one hoot of difference in my limited experience with such (I had a directional, solid core, unbalanced, single conductor cable - sounded pretty good, though not necessarily any better than some cables a quarter of the price - couldn't determine any difference whichever way round it went), some cables like Planet Waves have a marked directionality but they don't make any claim regarding "grain orientation/directionality" etc, just indicates "best practice" & makes sure that the shield connects to the amp.
Debates like cable debates always bewilder me to some degree...it takes longer to log into a furum & post a response than it does to physically check the issue at hand. If you have compared 2 cables...you have still only compared those 2 cables and can only have an informed opinion on those specific cables...there are lots of cables out there...
Lots of folk try and employ technical & scientific hyperbole to establish there is no difference, but scientists typically do experiments to cross reference each others findings & establish a common consensus. The technical jargon used in most counter claims is just as flimsy as the marketing hype used by the manufacturers - can we blame manufacturers for trying to sell products, show me a successful manufacturer who's tagline is "Our products are perfectly acceptible, no better, no worse & just the same as everyone else's - we just charge different money than the next bloke for them." ;-)
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www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
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Chinaski
229 posts
Jul 30, 2012
4:38 AM
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Mark - yeah, agreed. I am only going from the cables at my disposal, rather than making any blanket claim.
As mentioned, I wasn't expecting to tell much, if any, difference between the two, but I detect something.
I should add that I haven't actually purchased the pricier cable at this point, so neither am I trying to talk myself into something for the sake of my pocket! ;)
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Greg Heumann
1724 posts
Jul 30, 2012
7:17 AM
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Yeah, I never even heard of "directional" cables - but, given that audio is an AC signal (i.e., current reverses direction) the idea is pure B.S. in the first place. I juts thought his comments about impedance were interesting, as well as his general "don't believe the hype" attitude.
Do the math. Understand the science. Don't buy snake oil.
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/Greg
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MrVerylongusername
2415 posts
Jul 30, 2012
8:49 AM
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Faced with the prospect of only having one side of our PA running at a big gig, I rewired a speaker cable (2 pole speakon) with 5 metres of cable cut from an electrical extension lead.
Worked a charm. sounded just fine to my ears. That cable is still in the gig box.
Just saying...
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LSC
267 posts
Jul 30, 2012
8:53 AM
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I would also agree that any sonic difference in mic/guitar cable is negligible at best, though quality does count a lot in terms of reliability and ease of use.
Having said that, many years ago when living in the UK by accident I got an interest in audiophile hi-fi. One of the the popular themes was the use of high quality speaker and connector cable. The brands mentioned went of course from pricey to "WTF! You must be joking!" However the theory was that these esoteric cables were thicker and had a higher copper content. One day it occurred to me that the cable used to wire houses, called "mains cable" in the UK, was relatively thick almost pure copper, solid not stranded. While the audiophile cable cost up to 6 pounds sterling a foot purchased from a boutique hi-fi shop, I could get mains cable for 32 pence a foot from my local DIY store. I measured up how much I needed for a run from amp to speakers and promptly went out and dropped under a tenner.
Now mains cable is really stiff and not as easy to work with as stranded cable but I got it cut and connected in a few minutes. Low and behold all the claims made for high end cable turned out to be true. The bass tightened up considerable allowing for more definition in the overall sound. The cheapest and most effective hi-fi upgrade one could imagine. Brilliant.
Another tip. Dedicated speaker stands have two things in common, low area of contact with the speaker, and something dense used for filling the base of the stand. Often sand is used. I couldn't find speaker stands that would work with my Tannoys and the room I had on my desktop studio but one day I hit on an idea. What if I took empty beer cans and filled them with sand?
I hit the store, bought two six packs and, with great effort of will, drank eight of them. I filled the empty cans with garden sand and placed the speakers on top, one can at each corner. Brilliant. Just the right height. The rims of the cans make little contact with the speakers and the sand provided density providing all the benefits of expensive dedicated speaker stands. They look pretty cool as well. All at a cost of maybe 20 cents for the sand. I won't include the cost of the beer because I drank that so the cans were free. Or maybe I should include the full cost as a deduction and say I got the beer for free? Yeah, the IRS would go for that, right?
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LSC
Last Edited by on Jul 30, 2012 9:02 AM
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5F6H
1297 posts
Jul 30, 2012
9:21 AM
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Speaker cable is a whole different discussion... :-)
I have heard of many folks who have used mains cord for speaker cable, lamp cord too (even Ken Fischer of Trainwreck amps advocated that one and he was very particular) & coat hanger wire! My main concern for speaker wires is that the wire be big enough to handle the current demands.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Jul 30, 2012 9:22 AM
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Tuckster
1103 posts
Jul 30, 2012
9:36 AM
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Has anyone delved into the "high end" audiophile market? The interconnect and speaker cable segment is just crazy with "voodoo" science. And the prices are totally insane! My audiophile craze quickly vanished the first time I stood 4 ft. in front of a live drum kit. I'm not saying there can't be audible difference between cables,but it's all attributable to the reasons that guy that Greg quoted. As to our harp hobby,we're not looking for absolute fidelity-we want to drive our amps into clipping.
BTW= 99.9% pure copper? Guess what? It comes that way from the refiner-all of it!
Last Edited by on Jul 30, 2012 10:00 AM
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mrdon46
84 posts
Jul 30, 2012
11:58 PM
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As someone who's spent far more on gear over the years than I'd care to admit (especially to my wife), and have succumbed to the temptation of such things as PIO caps, high-end resistors, etc--and no doubt will again--at the end of the day I have to admit that as soon as the rest of the band starts to play NO ONE ELSE can tell the difference a $10 cap and a $.50 cap, or a $15 cable and a $100 cable; how well can you play, that's what matters. If you can hear the difference between an amp that's soldered with pure silver blessed by virgins and one that's not, and that .001% difference in tone is important, then by all means go for it--but don't expect your audience to notice or care.
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orphan
159 posts
Jul 31, 2012
8:28 AM
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Thanks Silvertone. That was eye opening and very informative. The chart on lengths and gauge is handy too. This guy really busted the myths and hype.
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atty1chgo
419 posts
Jul 31, 2012
8:35 AM
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Damn Greg, I never would have guessed 72!
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5F6H
1298 posts
Jul 31, 2012
11:06 AM
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In the speaker cable article linked, Roger Russell says, "However, it is my experience that ordinary copper wire, as long as it's heavy enough, is just as good as name brands." Which is pretty well all anyone needs to know & what reputable dealers who sell speaker wire say, even if they offer a range. Perceived benefits of more expensive speaker cables are usually identified along the lines of "kink-resistant/rugged jacket/fireproof" etc., or connector related.
This is largely moot for any combo amp users because they come with speaker wires that virtually never fail, certainly don't fail through power production (usually through chafing, physical abuse). The wire in the actual speaker's voice coil (if of a borderline rating) is the weak link in most cases. Output transformer secondaries (where the other end of the speaker wire terminates) never fail.
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Greg Heumann
1726 posts
Jul 31, 2012
1:12 PM
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Not to mention the wires are very short, unlike a run from the stereo in your living room to the speakers might be. Signal loss/voltage drop is a function of the kind of metal, the diameter, and the length.
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/Greg
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Greg Heumann
1727 posts
Jul 31, 2012
1:12 PM
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deleted - accidental double post
Last Edited by on Jul 31, 2012 1:12 PM
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