I just received a new Suzuki Pure Harp in Bb (The harp is a 'sister' to the Fire Breath).
I've been playing guitar since '66, however...
At any rate, I am pursuing single-note skills, as well as attempting the overblow.
Tinus recommends holding the draw reed shut, choking the blow reed, then releasing the draw reed (on the 1 overblow). I did not get the effect, so I disassembled the harp to examine--and adjust--the reed tip gapping. Also, it seems like some embossing is called for. And, the reed plates have only two screws holding the assembly together--ought there be three more--to make it airtight?
I spoke to the Suzuki tech in San Diego today (a well-known player/tech), who invited me to send the harp in for tweaking. I wanted to try some 'adjustments' myself--all in pursuit of the overblow.
The point is, several well known players touted the Fire Breath (and, therefore, the PH) as overblow ready, out of the box. It does not seem so...
Is tip gapping more essential than embossing for achieving the overblow? Have you tried the soda straw method--just to hear what the OB sounds like on your harp? It is supposedly a foolproof means of hitting the OB...(I will pick up some soda straws tomorrow and report results...).
Is embossing a daunting task--with the likelihood of damaging the reeds? Is there a certain 'break-in' period for any new harp?
Has anyone tuned their reeds? We know that 'A' is 440--what are the other notes' cps?
There is no perfect harp that will be all set for overblow playing right out of the box. There are certain models with the correct reed profiles which are more suitable for overblow playing, like the Firebreath, Manji, Hohner handmade models, etc., but even with these harps there are still adjustments that need to be made to make the harp more overblow friendly. Sometimes you get lucky and get a harp that overblows great out of the box, but this is simply luck of the draw.
Here's a good place to start for understanding how to adjust the gapping for overblow playing:
The soda straw method is something the late Chris Michalek used to use to demonstrate how to redirect the airflow to achieve the overblow.
As for embossing -vs- gapping. I feel that both are helpful, though some may have different opinions and will probably express them here. Embossing, like anything else, takes practice. There are many videos and resources online for this as well.
I don't feel that there is a break-in period, and I tune my harps to equal temperament, at 443hz, but there are many different opinions on tuning as well.
Hope this helps.
Last Edited by on Jul 24, 2012 7:29 PM
You stated in the thread title that you are a new player. Overblowing is one of the more difficult techniques. By all accounts, the Firebreath is supposed to be one the better OOB (Out-of-the-box) harps for overblows.
Playing harp can be a funny thing. I’ve been playing at an advanced-intermediate level for three decades and I really struggle with OBs. The straw trick didn’t work for me. It is not fool proof. I tweaked harps until I finally admitted that I was the problem, not the harp. To others it comes more easily.
Then there are tongue articulations, for example, that some of the best players practice for weeks and sometimes months to get. For me, those articulations came very easily.
So, don’t be too anxious to start tweaking your harps just to pursue overblows– give it some time. The harp will let you know soon enough what you can and can not do. . . .
Last Edited by on Jul 24, 2012 7:58 PM
Hi all--I am the Suzuki guy--nice to talk with you today Dean! Great advice so far. . . Embossing is easier with the right tool. I like the Sjoeberg tool, it makes it easy . . . Gapping is crucial to the overbend . . . but so is vocal resonance!
I struggled for weeks to sound even one overblow. Then I took the harp apart, started messing with the embossing and gapping. Then I realized the harp adjustment was a big part of the equation.
If you are new to embossing, I would not start with a valuable harp. I ruined a few reeds starting out.
It is a catch 22: when you are embossing / gapping, how do you know to stop if your mouth / tongue resonance is not right ? How do you know know how to form your mouth if the harmonica is not set up ?
Tinus' advice to place a finger over the blow hole (talking about harmonicas, not whales, in this case) was great for getting the overblow to sound.
BTW I am a newbie at this. ---------- Since I learned to overblow, I don't use my car horn so much any more.
Winslow Yerxa sells a Discrete Comb that fits MS reedplates. Each reed gets its own chamber. THAT harp is really easy to overblow! It's a lot like the Suzuki Overblow harp . . .
thanks to one and all for sharing your expertise and encouragement...
on studiously avoiding that Dylanesque sound (with kudos to Bob for his other achievements...)
1st day (more accurately: first few hours with the harp): it seemed like an insurmountable task, i.e., hitting a single hole/note; the very first efforts were three hole affairs ("why did I buy this...this...THING!");
I struggled to tame "the beast" (that might just as readily be identified as my embouchure, throat, air stream, etc., as much as the harp); getting comfortable with the idea of having a large tin biscuit in my mouth; curbing the impulse to salivate (I didn't think that would ever stop, but, gratefully, it did, after a couple of rolls of paper towels...); tentative placement of the tongue to block holes--a 'personalized' composite pursing/tonguing method...able to play two holes/notes with greater facility, several hours of practice...
2nd day: continued attempting the subtle act of hitting one hole/note; tilted the harp upwards (it helped); wrote out the harps notes with OBs and ODs--that helped a great deal too (part of my 'divide and conquer' method!); called Gary at Suzuki (thanks for the info!); afterwards I disassembled the harp (carefully, Gary!) and examined the reeds, gaps at the tips and around the sides--side gaps seem huge (based upon online harp tech's 'before and after' embossing photos), implying air leakage...closed tip gaps a bit, noting the degree of tolerance before choking, then backing off a bit; only two screws holding the whole shebang together (it seems like five would be de rigueur...); played into the night (turned on the stove hood fan to get some privacy...); finally getting one hole/note at a time--progress! playing the scale (second position?), still tentative...
It seems that what is happening is that I am actually narrowing the stream of air leaving my mouth from the back of my throat--and, not only narrowing it but directing it (by slight degrees, of course) to hit, e.g., the five hole--and largely succeeding, too! After maybe twelve hours of playing...
Here are my thoughts on the matter: it seems that there are several groups of diatonic players: one group keeps buying harps and posting at forums, hoping against hope that they will not need to shell out the funds for a fully-customized ten hole. The other group has faced matters squarely and bought said customized instrument, and go on to develop their playing without the instrument fighting back. Even someone like Ricci--who sings the praise of self-help (developing the skills to work on your harp) plays a harp customized by a well-known pro. My current 'role-model' is Otavio, who, I am informed plays a customized Hering. Levy, too, asserts the need to have a harp prepped by a pro.
Why not become a harp tech 'pro' yourself, you might ask? That is the ideal. With time, labor and experiment this will come to pass. IN THE MEANTIME, THOUGH...purchase a custom harp from someone who has faced the instrument squarely for hundreds--possibly thousands!--of hours: discovery, enlightenment, analyzing past methods and techniques, adjusting said technique, refining the approach, etc.
Please do not misconstrue: to struggle with the instrument yourself is an invaluable, HIGHLY commendable exercise--no honest effort goes unrewarded! But (and, of course, IF FUNDS ALLOW) no man is an island (John Donne): seek the assistance of someone who has already walked the road you are laboring to get down.
I say this as a musician of some forty years (guitar, tenor sax) who has spent many (read: MANY!) hours, e.g., setting the action on my Telecaster, adjusting my playing technique for awhile, adjusting the guitar some more, then me, etc. At the time it seemed to be a creative negotiation of sorts that I was involved in...it still does--and probably is, no matter how you approach the task...
Again: if funds necessitate that you must struggle as both player and tech, more power--and encouragement!--to you. But, if your piggy bank will relent, get the best horn possible--i.e., customized/prepped by a master tech.
Conclusion: I just shelled out one hundred and thirty dollars for a harp which may never achieve what I am after--without SIGNIFICANT tech work, that is. I would have done better to double the funds and get a finished product that can zig when I say "zig", and zag...that can turn on a dime, so to speak...
130 dollars? That's steep for any harp... Isn't a spiers stage one sp20 125? Anyhow. Here's some input from a fellow beginner... I get your angle. I have thought about getting a custom to just see what your aiming for when diddeling with the harps, but I have yet to buy one. I am getting comfortable adjusting gaps etc and that kind of happened at the same time I'm getting a real "feeling" playing them. For me I think that knowing what make the harps play well allows me to play them better. Or maybe vice versa.
As for different harps and overblows. I bought a Chinese "toy harp" for 5 bucks and gapped it. It overblows without problems. The sound of it in general is quit and crappy and it leaks as a sieve. But it OBs. So you don't need a expensive harp or a customised one but I can tell you one thing: you need to be able to play single holes so dig into that.
The only harps I have got that doesn't OB ok is a Suzuki promaster and lee oskars.
... Next I recommend regular bending, the draw on hole 4 is usually pretty easy. Check out some YT-vids. Musically I believe OB, is a "further-down-the-road" skill but everyone have their own path to follow. Just keep harping. ---------- Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
postscript: Regarding the hype posted online for the harmonica I've just purchased, let it be said that my irritation extends not to the folks at Suzuki who repair and tweak the instruments. They have been fair and even generous in sharing their considerable expertise, as well as sincere in extending service to my harp.
However, let the overzealoused folks in marketing heed the call to curb the temptation to hype the product beyond its capabilities. 'Truth in advertising' ought to be the benchmark from now on...
Regarding my use of the harp, I will provide a further assessment of it when I reach the hundred-hour mark in my practicing. At the rate I'm going that ought to be approximately one month. Until then, as Frank Zappa says, "Music is the best!"
The Sjöberg tool ,UST, is now the seydel setup tool since Dick Sjöberg has become a seydel guy. If you buy it from official sources it is said to come with a video by Dick. But again I advise against embossing untill you have gapped the reeds as per above. Embossing a badly gapped harp is like putting sport stripes on a car with no wheels...
I'm also not familiar with the harp you have got. Is there any "special" functions to it? Ie valves or similar?
Get proficient with bending, first draw bends and then blow bends on the upper register. If you have a good blow bending technique you'll have a helluva lot easier overblowing.
It's a really good idea to get to a hundred hours before tinkering too much. In that meantime you'll going to watch a lot of YouTube videos about both playing and setting up harps that you'll be at a lot better equipped when you start that last step into chromaticity.
Watch Adams YouTube videos from start if you haven't already. They're gold! ---------- Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
