BLUEGENE
1 post
Jul 13, 2012
6:51 AM
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New to the forum and have questions that I need advice on. Currently gig with a classic rock in roll band. Three guitars, bass, and drums. Guitarists playing thru 4 speaker cabs pushing 1oo watts. I now play thru the PA. It's time I get an amp myself. Money is always the first object. Looking at a VHT Special 6 amp, because of price, which I would mic to pa. Do you think I would need more amp? If not I'll break the piggy bank and consider a Harpgear HG2. If miced would it be enough? Next Harpgear Double Trouble or even a Mission Chicago, pretty sure any one of those would be enough amp. Any help or other suggestions greatly appreciated!
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SuperBee
407 posts
Jul 13, 2012
7:05 AM
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Personally I think you'd struggle with those little amps. Depends how loud the band is but 3 guitarists with 100 watt amps sounds like potential hearing damage. You can mic those little amps and get some fold back but that's fraught with feedback danger. I spent years messing about with smaller amps, thinking a 410 was overkill for our little venues. Finally I got one and life is easier. Anyway, just my experience; others seem to do fine with smaller amps or using PA. but 3 guitars suggest to me the sound is gonna be fairly dense and you will need all the help you can get.
For less than the price of a HG2 you can get a used Bassman RI or Deville and have something you may have a chance of hearing
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Last Edited by on Jul 13, 2012 7:08 AM
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orphan
145 posts
Jul 13, 2012
7:23 AM
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Welcome to the forum BLUEGENE.
I kinda followed the same path as SuperBee. I found the HG50 to be the only amp I tried that let me hear my harp easily with 3 guitar players. Last Sat. I was on stage with 3 guitars cranked plus bass and drums. They had me placed right between the Bass and the drums. I had no problem hearing myself with the loud stage volume around me. I did mic the amp with an e906 to get out over the guitars. There are other 50w 4x10s made for harp that can easily solve your volume issues, but the HG50 works real well in your situation.
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BLUEGENE
2 posts
Jul 13, 2012
7:34 AM
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And I forgot to mention all giutars and drums (electronic) are miced to pa, so soundman can control sound. Just need to be able to have good tone and hear myself too. Playing thru pa has never been a problem with hearing myself. Just need good tone that an amp would provide. Pa amp is 2500 sub, 1500 main, and 800 monitors.
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orphan
146 posts
Jul 13, 2012
7:49 AM
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Maybe you could get by with a LoneWolf Harp Attack or something similar. HarpNinja has had good luck with setups using PA only. Maybe he will offer some ideas.
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KingBiscuit
188 posts
Jul 13, 2012
7:51 AM
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I agree with orphan, Harp Attack seems to work well with PA. Also, you might consider a Kalamazoo 1 or 2 with a line out option. I've used both that Harp Attack and the Kalamazoo with line out to the PA. When you have that many guitars, you probably won't be able to hear the Kalamazoo on stage, you'll have to depend on monitors.
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eharp
1885 posts
Jul 13, 2012
7:59 AM
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check into the digitech multi-effect processor.
small, versatile and you can plug it into a PA.
and richard munter sells a nice set of patches for it.
you can get more info on richard hunter's site:
http://www.hunterharp.com/store/
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Rick Davis
511 posts
Jul 13, 2012
12:57 PM
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The Mission Chicago 32-20 amp is by far the loudest of the amps you listed. I've gigged it more than a hundred times; excellent tone. When the band is just too loud you can use it's line out into the PA for FOH support. I could always hear myself with this amp; I put it on a tilt-back stand.
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-Rick Davis
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BLUEGENE
3 posts
Jul 14, 2012
7:15 AM
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Thanks to all for advice. The guitarists say they are only at about two on volume. They just use the amps for onstage monitors and depend on pa to get the sound out to front. So onstage noise is not really bad at all. Don't want to buy too little nor too less. Still a bit confused over what to do???
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Littoral
557 posts
Jul 14, 2012
7:40 AM
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PA and a small amp?
If you have A LOT of control/confidence in an ability to adjust the PA as needed -each venue and during the show- then the small amp can work. Really well, actually. Line out would help but mic-ed works too. You'll need good monitors.
When you finally get fed up with trying to reign in all those variables (read -issues) you'll be really happy to just plug in to your big 4-10.
IMHO
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Rick Davis
521 posts
Jul 14, 2012
8:59 AM
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I like what Littoral said. But... even a big 4x10 amp WITH an anti-feedback pedal can get smothered by loud drummer and guitars. We can never win the volume wars. It's just the nature of the technology: Walking around in front of a powerful amp with an open microphone is not ideal. As amped blues harp players we always need a band that is sympathetic to what we are trying to do. Lower stage volume is the key.
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-Rick Davis
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5F6H
1263 posts
Jul 14, 2012
9:13 AM
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+1 on what Littoral & Rick say...
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walterharp
904 posts
Jul 14, 2012
10:19 AM
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it is a little strange the guitar players are hauling around big amps even if they have them turned down.. maybe for the looks? Decent tube amps need to be turned up a bit to find that sweet spot, if they are just using solid state amps, then relative volume does not matter as much
you never described what tone you are actually after, this makes a difference in what amp would be best or if you should just stick with the PA
also, while you are always thinking about money, if you buy a crummy amp, it loses value upon resale, but if you get a decent price on a good quality amp that is already used, if you do not like it, you can turn it around much easier and find one that fits you
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BLUEGENE
5 posts
Jul 14, 2012
12:59 PM
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Classic rock..Train Train, Mary Janes Last Dance always in the set. Only time I need to find the Chicago crunch is on I'm A Criminal by Paul Reddick. So even though I'm not playing blues I still want to spice it up a bit. Maybe the Harp Attack is all I need now. Although in the future I would love to learn the blues side. Soundman said what ever I get he will make it sound good as he always does. Hats off to the soundmen out there! Thanks again to all.
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BLUEGENE
7 posts
Jul 16, 2012
4:10 PM
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OK after much research and others opinions I think for the time being I'll try the Harp Attack with a delay pedal or the Digitech RP355 with the patch kit by Hunter. Now..what's the best in Ya'lls opinion here? Remember I play varied types of music...need clean sometimes, dirty, and a little in between. HarpNinja what's your take? I heard you have playin thru the PA experience. Currently use a 5 year old Green Bullet unmodified. Also have a 58 and 57 I can use.
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LSC
252 posts
Jul 16, 2012
4:43 PM
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I've used a Harp Attack with a Lone Wolf Harp Delay through a PA on occasion with good results. The Harp Attack allows you do dial in the amount of distortion you want. It's also true bypass, as is the Harp Delay so you can take it out completely. Some would argue that they are not true bypass, which may be technically true but to my ears are as near as makes no difference.
Don't have experience of the Digitech but quite a few here swear by it. Personally, it has too many bells and whistles for my taste. One can get lost in too many options but some folks like that. The Harp Attack and Harp Delay are designed specifically for harp, as opposed to guitar. They are each designed to do a specific job and do it well. It's sort of like the difference between a guitar player with a pedal board full of tricks or a guy who just uses a guitar chord and a bit of reverb. Horses for courses.
Same thing with mics. I'm not a fan of the current Green Bullets, though some say they aren't that bad. Kind of back handed compliment. From what you describe as your playing style and genre I would have thought the 58 or 57 would be the way to go. At some point you might want to consider one of Greg Heumann's Ultimate mics. A superb piece of engineering which is way lighter and adds a volume control. The Bulletizer is also a very good addition.
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LSC
Last Edited by on Jul 16, 2012 4:49 PM
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