I am a blueshound. That's what I like to listen to and to play. Generally the older the better (for me), but anything that is truly the blues is in my wheelhouse. However, I realize that a lot of rock and roll (especially early on) came from the blues. It seems to me that, at times, early rock and roll was just blues speed up. Is that an accurate statement? And I would assume that jazz and blues have a close association in many cases. Still, it seems to me that there is an element to the blues - soul, rhythm, feeling ...? - that I don't feel in most other music forms. And, as a white, 61 year old Jewish guy, I can't claim that the blues taps into my heritage (although the Jewish people have certainly seen their share of suffering over time). Yet, blues songs hit me deep inside, whether it's a song like "Collector Man Blues" by Sonny Boy I, or Willie Dixon doing "Spoonful." I think it was this site where someone put up a youtube interview with Gary Primich where he talked about the blues and the feelings that were evoked in him. Anyway, just wondering what others thought along these lines.
Last Edited by on Jun 26, 2012 4:25 PM
I'm not sure as rock and roll is blues speeded up, but certainly rock came from blues. There is a concept by some people that all blues is slow moaning monotony, which of course is far from the truth. Take for example 'Pontiac Blues' by Sugar Blue. I think someone once said "You don't play blues, you feel it". Yes, Jazz and blues can be similar but can be so far apart as to not be recognisable. It annoys me sometimes however, when people brand both as the same genre.
I, too, like to go back and find the earliest versions of songs. Sometimes the rendition of the song makes it blues..or bluesy anyway. Season of the Witch, originally recorded by Donovan (I think) always caught my ear, but it was done sort of as a mystical somewhat pussified piece and covered my many. But I swallowed the hook when I heard Dr. John's version in Blues Brothers 2000. I've subsequently written new lyrics (Your Friggin' Mother is a Bitch) and enjoy playing and singing it as a quasi-blues song. Excuse my verbosity. It's that time of night. I think all music is influenced by that which came before. Enjoy it. It doesn't really need to be pigeon-holed.
You ask a biggie Rg. Welcome to the forum. I think Woodeye is on to something when he talks about the 'rendition'. Who is doing the song - and the attitude they bring to it can make it blues (imo) - even if the song does not fit the traditional blues forms. Here's a quick example - Drunkards Special and Wake up Baby the first is from a Smithsonian Folkways folk music anthology - the second by Sonny Boy II - it's the same song. I believe the first one is older.
re. Jews and Blues. You do come from a DEEP tradition of soul and blues Bubbellah - it's just a different tradition - and a different musical form. skip to :52 seconds in to miss the voicover 'spiel' and cut to the stuff.
I am currently playing around with both Latin and African music - but doing both of them with a blues aproach. - We'll see where it leads. ----------
Last Edited by on Jun 26, 2012 6:22 PM
Summertime - blues, jazz, musical theater, Jewish & African American roots. In 1934, For Porgy and Bess, Gershwin, according to the New York Herald Tribune "had transformed himself into an eager student of Negro music” - traveling down south to soak up what culture he could.
Here's Sidney Becht's very bluesy version of a a tune written by an american Jew of Russian decent. Bechet's intro sounds like it was lifted straight from Jewish Cantoral chant similar to the example above. Harmonic Minor plaintive wailing.
Here's Paul Lassey doing a very 'Blues' version on diatonic
and Filip Jers much more jazz version - also on diatonic. - He's a monster.
Great examples Bonedog. As you said, the rendition and who is doing it can make all the difference. For example, I ran into a YouTube of Ricky Nelson doing a well known blues song ( can't remember which one) as country and western. Now that was a crime! I do like many of the older melodies in the Jewish liturgy. Rich
you can find plenty of examples of blues material being recycled into white pop esp in the early and mid 60's, pre brit invasion. and what does one say about the brits and their influence with blues and rock?
Jolene and i are a roots and blues duo. we are not stuck in tradition ie 75 year old material done like the original artist from the delta etc etc. we do a bit of folk, a bit of country, some rock and roll even, and a lot of very recognized blues standards and also a lot of songs we have written and copyrighted and produced. i am originally from western ny state while she came from oklahoma at an early age, to grow up in southwest arkansas. both of us grew up poor but white. both have had heartache and trials in our lives. the question comes up from time to time about what blues is, and who is suited to play it. to my ear it involves minor notes, sometimes a 12 bar and sometimes a I-IV-V format, or a hang-on-the I approach. piano, guitar, harp and a host of other instruments can be used to play the form. i have heard elements of "blues" in a lot of diverse styles and genres from african chants to asian music and even some music done by indigenous people from south america and alaska.
blues is a hodgepodge of earlier influences all put into one place. what we see as blues today may have memphis minnie, rj, skip james, bessie smith, all spinning in their graves. but when those folks were in the forefront, they were trying to find a catchy style of playing and singing that would keep them out of the cotton fields and maybe out of jail as well. it included spiritual, gospel, gutbucket, swing, ragtime, jazz, and a host of other styles which influenced their set lists much like my set lists have been influenced from different directions over recent decades. i've heard the anguish a singer or guitarist in a metal band must feel to do what they do. i saw some very early examples of punk in the 70's and even related to that. to me there is an element of self in blues. sometimes a scab-ripped-off quality. at other times more a joyous uplift from despair not unlike spiritual.
let us not forget who "put the unk in funk". it was none other than Muddy Waters. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
It is all about the groove and feel. The real blues grove, especially the black blues groove is played behind the beat and rock bands, even when do a blues tune, will usually play either right on top but more often ahead of the beat. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
@ Jehosaphat - cool. Irish folk is probably the origin of this thing -what'ya think?
Probably the two most obvious takes relating to the Rock vs. Blues. Illustrating BBQ Bob's point as well as my earlier ones.
My .02 - and about what it's worth: Couldn't live without the first (HW). Could easily pass on the second. Weak sauce harmonica. Awful tone. Dripping with rock star ego. Probably inspired half of us here to look into the blues though, as it did a lot my friends and music collaborators -worthwhile for that alone I suppose. sorry Cream lovers.. they never did it for me. ----------
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2012 5:53 PM
Looks like it is another one of those old European folk songs that the Negroes heard and adapted to their own idiom. SBW's version shows an inventive mind for lyrics and is probably my favourite outta the three. Mind you the Dubliners is the easily the best to sing along too with a beer in hand ;)
Wikipedia "Seven Drunken Nights" is a humorous folk Irish song, most famously performed by The Dubliners and others. The Dubliners version reached number 7 in the UK charts in 1967, thanks to its diffusion on Radio Caroline, though it was banned from the national broadcasting station[1]. It was based on an older English ballad, "Our Goodman" (Child Ballad #274), sometimes called "Four Nights Drunk". The song also became part of American folk culture, both through Irish-Americans and through the blues tradition. Among polite audiences only five of the seven nights usually are sung because of the vulgar nature of the final two. Each night is a verse, followed by a chorus, in which the narrator comes home in a drunken state to find evidence of another man having been with his wife, which she explains away, not entirely convincingly.
i don't even know where she found it but my wife began playing "this train" a few years ago which is a spiritual or gospel song. amazingly, it was not long before i realized that it's the same as- and probably predates- "my babe" by Little Walter. this is one of a lot of examples of s piece of music lifted from one usage and fitted to a different usage. happens all the time and always has i think. last year Adam posted an article about how the natchez indians of mississippi had a camp on the mississippi river at what is now the city of natchez. back in the day this was a port city and slaves were moved thought there a lot. one theory is that the Natchez indians turned the slaves passing through onto the I-IV-V progression and also onto the instruments that would become common blues instruments later. you can find european influences that go far back as well.
blues did not spontaneously originate in one place. rather it is a combination and evolution of a lot of various influences over a few centuries, and those influences are from far and wide across the globe.
one other feature i have to mention about blues, at least for me. improvisation on a theme. this is the way i have always approached playing harmonica and later, singing. as much as possible i play a given piece or song a bit differently every time out. part of this is choice and part is a lack of formal music education. most of what i know came from hanging out with and playing with people who knew- and know- more than i do, and learning to compliment what they are doing and fitting in as a harp player or even as the vocalist in a given song. this is not without its pitfalls but it also has a lot of reward to it, or i would have found another way a long time ago. i've been very fortunate to have my wife Jolene as my duo partner for about 6 years now. she has striven to do everything i ask of her. and she has succeeded in a lot of ways much more than i expected. add to that the latest project i have been working in with Bluesboy Jag and i am feeling really great about playing harp and singing these days. a large percentage of what i do is blues or blues based. for a lot of years all i played was cross harp but the past 10 years have found me doing a lot more 1st and 3rd position playing as well. last thing i can say is, whatever blues is or isn't, my life is much richer and fuller thanks to playing and attempting to play in this vein. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
