GregG
Guest
Nov 22, 2008
5:39 PM
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I've hit a wall trying to get a whole step 2 draw bend. I downloaded the "Bendometer" so I can see what's going on. I've downloaded and watched Adam's lesson multiple times. I can get the F# fairly easily, even a hair lower on occassion but I haven't managed to get the full bend even for a split second. This is extremely frustrating as I was bending the 4 draw the day I bought my first harp.
What now? Any other tips out there? I've been through all the beginner lessons and I'm very excited to get into the next set but this is holding me back.
Any help is very much appreciated.
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eharp
149 posts
Nov 22, 2008
6:54 PM
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practice and patience. remember, it aint a race. also, if it was easy, everyone would do it! and a stitch in time saves nine.
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TylerLannan
3 posts
Nov 22, 2008
10:34 PM
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The type of harp you are using doesn't really matter but I found that when I first started bending it was much easier to get it to bend all the way down On a harp with a plastic comb (hohner special 20 to be specific). The plastic will give you a much more airtight seal this making bending easier. Cheap harps usually don't work that well either. If you are using the lip puckering embouchere the half step bend will occur further foward in your mouth with the middle of your tongue on the don't of your pallate. The full step will occur with the back of your tongue near the rear of your pallate. Try making kuh sound on the inhale. I have heard only good things about chris's straw method too. Good luck : )
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Chris Michalek
Guest
Nov 23, 2008
4:24 AM
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The straw method works because new players focus on the sound and the note rather than air stream control. Playing the harmonica is more about air stream control than anything else.
The straw takes away attention from all else and forces the player to focus on air stream control.
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*Merlin*
8 posts
Nov 23, 2008
5:34 AM
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Greg,
If it helps any, you are not alone in the 2 draw bend boat. Like so many have suggested there does not seem to be a magic bullet for it, we must just endeavor to persevere
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Chris Michalek
Guest
Nov 23, 2008
5:37 AM
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Um... Merlin,
there IS a magic bullet and I described it.
At SPAH this past year, I taught over 20 people to bend and OB in less than a minute by employing a simple straw.
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gene
78 posts
Nov 24, 2008
2:56 AM
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Chris,
I agrre with Greg. I'm willing to try the straw thing, but I don't know what you mean by moving the open end up. Could you please give us detailed instruction, or provide a link if you've posted that somewhere?
(Edit):Never mind. I found it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys86fFfylRw
About 5 minutes into the video.
(Another Edit): I tried it. It didn't help. I have no problem keeping an air stream through the straw, and I can bend notes, but my 1 and 4 draws (on a C harp) won't go down a complete half-step. They're about 20 cents sharp. (results vary depending on harp key.)
And overblows? Forget it! :(
I think you masters are prankin' us. They don't exist!! :D
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2008 3:22 AM
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Chris Michalek
Guest
Nov 24, 2008
5:48 AM
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Then you have crap harps are or not doing it right. Sorry but I've helps hundreds achieve all notes within seconds with the method.
There is only ONE person that has not been able to do this in front of me.
Good Luck.
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Oxharp
45 posts
Nov 24, 2008
2:08 PM
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You need a one to one discusion about this.
If I can help email me russ.turner@ntlworld.com
we can skype and sort it.
Russ
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GregG
Guest
Nov 24, 2008
10:09 PM
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Ah hah! I'm not hitting it consistently but I've nailed it a few times. I just can't figure out what it is I'm doing to make it happen. I do know that I'm RELAXING now. Before I was tensing up, drawing way too hard and narrowing my mouth.
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GregG
Guest
Nov 24, 2008
10:19 PM
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On the topic of "the straw trick"
I just watched the video and did the exercise. It does seem to get your mouth and tongue in the correct position, and get you breathing right, I am however having trouble transfering it from the straw to te harp.
Anyways, I've now hit the 2 draw bend several times, and I couldn't be more thrilled. Might have to call in sick to work so I can stay home and practice.
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Chris Michalek
Guest
Nov 24, 2008
10:32 PM
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Tilt the back of your harp up... if you look at the players who really know how to play most of them do this.
Using the straw, your mouth and jaw is actually in the perfect position if the harp is tilted. Just pull out the straw and put the harp there.
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kudzurunner
171 posts
Nov 25, 2008
12:06 AM
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I don't tilt the harp at all, but I do have a mantra that helps with this particular problem. "Hey, that's great. You're on the way. Now do exactly the same thing TWICE AS HARD."
If that doesn't work, I say, "Okay, that's great. Now get REALLY PISSED OFF AT THE HARP."
What I find, frankly, is that players who can't achieve the full bend have no idea how hard they COULD be pullng air through the harp and/or yanking the airstream down through changing the shape of their mouth. Once they get the proper feeling, the yanking-down feeling of the notch-point required to make the whole-step bend on the 2 draw, they have an Aha! moment. After that, they know what they're trying for. Then, over time, they're able to produce the bend with much less exaggeration--with a quick flick of the tongue, if you will
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2008 12:07 AM
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guest
Guest
Nov 25, 2008
8:47 AM
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Chris is right about tilting the harp. I "really know how to play", but I tilt it DOWN. Whichever works for you.
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mr_so&so
7 posts
Nov 25, 2008
9:48 AM
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Thanks Chris, and Adam, for your tips. I have the draw bends now and am working hard on the blow bends, and a little more half-heartedly on the overblows, since they have some reliance on the harp setup and I am using unmodified harps.
I too had trouble with the 2 draw full-step bend. Using Adam's advice I pulled as hard as I could until I got there. I had to stop playing for about a week since I hurt my throat. After that initial breakthrough I was able to ease way off. Chris's straw tip has certainly worked for me on the 8 and 9 blow bends --- just thinking about a straw being there did it. I still can't get anything on the 10 blow bends yet. So if there are some extra tips out there (or just encouragement) for that one, I'd like to hear them.
I've gotten to the "wheels falling off" sound on the 6 overblow, and *maybe* got there once or twice on my Suzuki Bluesmaster A harp, but the tone was not pure. I'll keep working at it. Is there any particular key of harp that is easier? Any brand of harp better than others for "unmodified" overblows?
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Anonymous
Guest
Nov 25, 2008
9:59 AM
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So Chris, let's say I play the harp upside down (numbers down) then does that mean I need to tilt the back of the harp DOWN to get those bends? Please help!!
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*Merlin*
9 posts
Nov 25, 2008
1:57 PM
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Well slap me around and call me Susan.. I'm bending!!!!
I found that I have been pseudo bending all along and that is part of why I couln't hear the bend. Now, more relaxed on my regular 2draw and my 2draw bend has more deffinition. So not only did the straw trick help me bend it showed that my draw was in need of some polish.
Thanks Chris!
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geordiebluesman
113 posts
Nov 26, 2008
12:06 AM
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Hey Chris,I have another challenge for you!,Do you have a Magic Bullet solution to the other great begginers nightmare,Namely getting consistent and reliable notes from holes 7-10,If you have you shall henceforth become a legend in your own lunchtime!
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 12:07 AM
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gene
79 posts
Nov 26, 2008
12:35 AM
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I have NO problem bending the 2 draw, no problem bending the 3 draw two steps (three steps is a buger),except for bending them accurately--There's a place that it "jumps" too far. not much problem with the 6 draw, I can easily bend 8 and 9 blows. I have a heck of a time with the bent 10 blow.
My biggest problems are the 1 draw and the 4 draw. Chris said either I'm not doing it right or my harps are crap. I think I'm doing right, but I'll to "get pissed at my harps" (again) as Adam said. I don't think my harps are crap, but that's judging by reputation (Suzuki Promasters). I've never had anything else to compare the Promasters with. (They are air tight. I even put Micro Pore on them just for good measure.)
I saw in one of Chris' videos that he takes tools to his reeds, doing this and doing that. If that's what it would take to solve my problem, I'll just have to live with sharp bent 1 and 4 draws. I'm not brave enough to go tinkerin' with my reeds.
I have NO trouble with overblows. (How could I have trouble if I don't even try them anymore?! :) )
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 12:53 AM
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Chris Michalek
Guest
Nov 26, 2008
6:35 AM
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notes 8-10 and OBs on higher harps are all about having and controlling back pressure. Can you control the volume of each note? If you listen to me play on a scale of 1-5 I'm hitting most notes with a pressure level of 2-3.
Again I suggest you go back to the straw but this time use a straw with a smaller diameter like a cocktail straw or something. You can also use a regular straw but kink the open end a little bit with your finger as you hold it.
Learn to self regulate pressure and volume. I've mentioned before that I don't like mic with volume controls...I don't need them because I have my own volume control in my body. On off switch is way better for me.
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gene
80 posts
Nov 27, 2008
12:50 AM
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I have all 12 keys, plus high G and low F. In trying to answer your question, I only tried a few harps, the lowest one being C.
Controling the volume was no problem at all on the blow bends I could hit. I can bend 8 and 9 blow, I can even bend the 7 blow 1/4 step (and all that with gut vibrato), but only occasionally bend the 10 blow, and with little or no volume control. The E harp is the highest harp on which I could still bend the 9 blow.
"Getting pissed" at my harps when trying the 1 and 4 draw bend only made them sharper. So can I blame my harp for my 1 and 4 draw bend problems?
By the way:
Sorry. I didn't mean to hijack this thread. I did ask this question in another thread
http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/384636.htm
but nobody seemed to understand the question.
Last Edited by on Nov 27, 2008 1:00 AM
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Skeet
1 post
Nov 28, 2008
7:43 PM
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The "do re me" scale is how learned to bend the bottom notes. If you play 4b 4d 5b 5d 6b 6d 7d 7b that's the "do re me" scale. You probably already know that. To play it with the low notes you play 1b 1d 2b 2d(bent) 2d 3d(bent) 3d 4b. I kept going up and down the scale until I could do it. Sounded like a dying duck at first. I've been able to bend and control those notes w/ no probs ever since the 1st time I hit the scale. It was helpful to me because the scale was something that was so familiar to the ear
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Aussiesucker
85 posts
Nov 28, 2008
9:49 PM
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Spot on Skeet the major scale is one of the exercises I always do starting on 1B through 7B. It is also essential to practice the blues scale however we are all more familiar with how 'do re me' should sound.
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harryb
Guest
Nov 29, 2008
6:15 AM
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complete beginner,[for 35 yrs.] i can make clean single notes using a tip of tongue u-block, but not by lip pursing. [forget tongue blocking]. can i get bent notes this way?
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TylerLannan
23 posts
Dec 02, 2008
9:49 PM
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Harryb:
Of course you can get bends with the u-tonguing method. That is my preferred style of playing ((I can also play tongue blocking and lip pursing I just prefer the u-tonguing)). It's a lil different than the lip pursing or the tongue blocked bends though, I don't want to eat up a whole bunch of thread board though. If your interested in the method I use to bend with that style e-mail me --> Tylerlannan@yahoo.com
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*you can only keep what you have by giving it away*
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RyanMortos
8 posts
Dec 07, 2008
5:13 PM
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Is it possible to perform a bend by changing lip positioning? I watched the 'straw technique' by Chris. I started doing as suggested but it seems I can get a bent note sound by slightly dropping my jaw forward and tightening down with my upper lip? I can feel the air slide downwards instead of straight back with minor effort but for the most part I'm noticing my top lip tightening down. Does that sound like a correct bend?
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~Ryan
PA
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eharp
163 posts
Dec 07, 2008
5:23 PM
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there are probably several ways to get bends and several ways that folks explain how they get bends. the jaw dropping forward is mentioned often.
if it is working for you, i would try to develop it further. but i would use a tuner and make sure you are hitting the notes.
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gene
87 posts
Dec 09, 2008
1:19 PM
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I solved my problem with the -1' and the -4'!! I had been trying to bend them with more force than finesse. I found out that I need to articulate the word "you." (Dropping the jaw much lower for the-1'.) I had been articulating "oh", and no amount of force would get those bends down a complete 1/2 step.
I also solved my problem with the 10'. I simply needed to use MORE force.
I wasted an E Bay gift card on another brand of harmonica. I wanted to try a Golden Melody because they're said to be easy to bend. It hasn't arrived, yet, but I don't need it now. I guess that will be my "take everywhere to practice" harp
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2008 1:25 PM
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Andrew
5 posts
Dec 13, 2008
7:40 AM
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I found that it's best to get out of the habit of tilting the harp as quickly as you can. Most of my bends are achieved by tongue and throat shape only, but I occasionally find that I have to start the bend by firming my embouchure thus slightly narrowing the hole between my lips. I suspect a common error (I know I used to make it) is to overbend, especially with the whole-tone two-hole draw bend - there's never any musical need to bend it a tone and a quarter, and it's easier on a recalcitrant harp (if my D harp is anything to go by) if you are not exceeding the whole tone. (I'm only intermediate, so forgive me if I seem to speak with more authority than I actually have)
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2008 5:40 AM
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