As mom used to say, "Play nice." I'm commenting on a topic in another thread about playing with a guitar player/singer, whatever. It's common knowledge that you don't try to steal the singers' thunder by playing over their vocals. Same with wailing on the guitar players solo. At some jams the MC won't let 2 harmonica players on stage at the same time. I don't totally agree. I think the harp player is missing some opportunities to harmonize with the singer and showcase the guitar player if he/she knows how to do it. You can chug or play rhythm along with the guitar player and accent the vocals if you are careful. Sure, lot's of times I stop, but you don't always have to. Willie Nelson is a good example of the rule, he sings, everyone else stays back, he gives each guy a really short break and that's it. In fact, I always felt sorry for Mickey, he get's about 30 seconds on each song. (somebody told me not to feel sorry for him though, I guess Willie pays well) What do ya'll think?
Last Edited by on Jun 18, 2012 3:45 PM
ok heres what i think, and youre not gonna like it so stop reading now. if you held a gun to my head and told me to get on stage with willie nelson i would just say kill me. i will get on stage with another harp player as long as im singing. if i get to blow my 30 second ride after the second verse fine if not fine no big hairy deal i dont always have to play. i wont do any of that retarded cuttin heads shit. if a harp player blows a lick in my face i say "ok you win" and walk off stage and out of the bar. to really piss off a singer or guitarist you have to understand these are the types of people who talk to themselves in the mirror with lots of "i love you" type of confidence boosting affirmations. all you have to do is when you first see them is look at them in a state of shock and say "what the hell happened to you?" (if they have a big fat gut look at this while saying it) or if theyre seated and youre standing look at the top of their head and say "youre getting a little thin on top there" thats usually enough to send a singer or guitarist home crying to his moma (yes guitarists live at home till theyre 50).
Guitar players. Depends. With some I will stay clear for two chorus' but if they go three I'll start adding little chops to see how they respond. Sometimes leads into great trading 4's sessions. (Other certain guitar players I've learned to strictly lay out.) I think it helps if you talk to them about taking turns on turn-arounds. Part of the 'play nice', be polite experience. Singers. This one urks me. On seemingly 80-85% of harp albums I hear playing under/with the lyrics for side-man harp players. This 'thou shalt not touch the vocals' edict burns my goats. I guess again, it depends on the singer. If I'm playing with an in-tune, growling blues shouter it's game on. I'm weaving in and around, under and floating above. A less confident singer gets more space.
I think it's the job of everyone the band to make the singer or soloist sound good, and they aren't going to sound good if they're annoyed at what they're hearing behind them. So, play whatever you want, but be sensitive to how you're effecting the total sound and if you're being frowned at, back off.
I know the Walters would often play all over the singer, but a) that fits that style and b) part of their genius was the ability to make that sound good.
when willie comes to play for an audience,he plays for an audience that came to see him and his band as backup....but would be willing to bet a dollar to a doughnut that willie would not trade mickey for any other harp player....and willies band has very little turnover
I am not a professional, but I will give my thoughts on what I have experienced at jam sessions. Being in Chicago gives even an amateur harp player the chance to jam with some pretty good blues artists, and I have had the opportunity to jam with The Sons Of Blues (with and without Billy Branch), Linsey Alexander, Killer Ray Allison, Sharon Lewis - just in the past 6 months.
I agree with bluemoose on guitar players, they get plenty of space, but it all depends on what is being played, and how well they are playing. I will start nibbling around the edges where appropriate, but never to detract from what is being played. With vocalists it is a little more delicate, but if you have your head into what is going on, it's not a whole lot different. Less is more.
A lot depends on the lineup. A big band, and you should obviously do less. Duo or three piece leaves more room to play. Either way, as I get more experienced I notice the power in playing less. Its not hard to overdo harp. Less is more. ---------- Lucky Lester
and playing with vocals; the goal is to play in the spaces, or at most support the vocals in such a way that it doesn't distract from them. I agree with timeistight; its everyone's job to make the frontman (or woman) sound good. ---------- Lucky Lester
My method has been to play just enough to make them ask you to play more and then be sensitive to how much more is acceptable. All this while embracing the primary tenet of serving the song. To me it is what best serves the song that is the primary edict. ---------- snakes in Snohomish
" snakes 666 posts Jun 18, 2012 2:44 PM My method has been to play just enough to make them ask you to play more and then be sensitive to how much more is acceptable. All this while embracing the primary tenet of serving the song. To me it is what best serves the song that is the primary edict. ---------- snakes in Snohomish"
Not only does Mickey get paid, his 30 seconds is with one of the best bands in the world. Good music feels good! Plus the audience is loving it! That energy is great!
Last Saturday I played 3 hours with a 8 piece country band. (singers made it 9 to 10 on stage) 3 guitars bass drums lap steel guitar violin me on harp
All night I was trying to not play over the lead guitar, the violin, and the steel player, In 3 hours I had about four 12 bar solos. I did play a lot, but I also got to rest a lot. I did a lot of chording on the beat of 2 or 4 and a lot of call and response licks.
good ideas here. of course people tend to forget, the band is there to support the vocals a lot of the time. but on a song like say "she caught the katy", where taj is doing the harp and vocals, that makes it much easier usually. if the song is played close to how he played it, or any number of other songs designed for the vocalist to blow harp in, it's a shoo-in for the harp guy to do the same or a similar part. i have heard both little walter and james cotton let alone carey bell hang back in the background on muddy waters' material, and it fit just right. mickey rafael is a very professional harpman who does what not only willie wants but what a particular song needs. he found a niche a long time ago and has worked within it all along. guys who have to solo every song or cut heads imo have a lot to learn yet. mostly about manners. i like having a second harp on stage esp when i'm singing. if the second harp can do good fills and not step up too hard it's a nice touch and saves me splitting my attention between vocals and harp. and in turnaround time we both get to do a nice solo or 2. to me it can also be an opportunity to bring a less experienced guy into the fold a bit and give him or her inspiration to excel. which i believe is part of my duty as a keeper of the tradition.
the trick here is, playing WITH and not IN SPITE OF. if it's a battle, and it's my gig, you will lose. the whole idea is to mesh with a band and put on a good show, to please your employer and the audience. if it's not my stage, you may have the victory, i'll step down. i can cut heads and you may not ever outdo me but why? i'd much rather get along and learn and maybe teach, and generally have a good time of it all around. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
yeah in a band sitch GET PAID is the rule to live by. a prima donna guitarist who doesnt throw bi polar baby fits is hard to come by so its good for someone to play band shrink (GET PAID)usually the guy who plays band manager (GET PAID). oh and always let the jerkhead guitar player do the sound and music direction arrange setlists etc. it keeps his mind off the fact that hes 40 lives with his parents and was never signed to capitol records and in reality is a hasbeen. someone usually the bass player has to watch that the drummer doesnt bring his own booze and get shitfaced and throw up on everything (GET PAID). if the bass player fails the singer has to be prepared to get behind the drums (GET PAID)and at least finish out the last set, while the drummer sleeps it off puking all over the van. yeah head cuttin is a problem at open mics. owners and audiences love to see fights. this is why i use a vocal mic in a stand. i back off the mic a good 9" put my right index over my ear. i can hear me the audience can hear me and the band cant. this works out for everyone. the guitarist hates any noise besides himself. the harmonica along with drums makes people pound down drinks (GET PAID).
He's the great Rob Paparozzi with his band The Hudson River Rats plus guests:
Notice how Paparozzi and the band change how they play depending on what the soloist is doing and how good they sound doing it. Rob doesn't take a solo himself but he still looks to be having a pretty good time, doesn't he?doesn't he
