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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Bad harpin'
Bad harpin'
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LittleJoeSamson
14 posts
Aug 10, 2008
1:10 PM
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Last night I travelled further than I usually do to meet a guitarist/bassist/singer that another guitarist friend wanted to introduce me to. I had asked my pal if he would be interested in joining a new, straight ahead Blues/West Coast Swing band I want to form and front. He replied that he has a full schedule, but thought this other fellow might be interested, and invited me to come hear them play.
I arrived early and discussed some of my ideas with the bloke, introducing myself as a harpman. Later, I heard him whisper to the drummer about another harmonica player that was planning on showing up and sitting in. I quickly explained that I had no interest in playing myself, that I was there to listen. I think he was relieved, but a little embarrassed for being presumptuous. Unless I have played with someone before, it is not cool to invite yourself into a gig. Now a jam is different.
So, after hearing the first set, I could tell that this fellow would not be a good fit with what I have in mind: too slow, too monotonous, could not hear his guitar licks at all, and his singing was a very limited range. He seems to know plenty of songs and lyrics, but the dynamics were uninspiring to say the least ( dynamics are key! ).
So, I wait around for the second set, and this other harp guy shows. I recognize him, and he is one of only two harp brothers that I have personally met/talked with that is a total jerk. He comes with a small cosmetic box kit and nothing else. Halfway thru the second set, they call him up. Not only does he have maybe six licks tops, but he plays with one of stage mics that is straight into the PA, grabbing it out of the stand and cupping it. It is bright and LOUD! The band does not have monitors, and they are all standing back of the mains ( so I do not imagine they heard it like I did ). Dreadful!
Here is a hint to those learning, and to others: when playing thru a PA....keep the mic in the holder and then adjust volume by moving closer or farther from the mic. Use your hand flutters for effect.
I did not mention any of this at the end of the second set. I have only seen this poor player twice in my life, with no intention of any further ones. The first time I saw him, he had an older amp that had seen some wear. Nothing special, but technically vintage. I noticed the handle was of the type that tends to dry out in time and is subject to breaking spontaneously. I mentioned that he might want to not carry it that way to avoid the two foot fall. Well, no good deed goes unpunished! He snapped back with a surly remark that I cannot say here. Perhaps karma struck, because the amp was nowhere in sight last night.
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 10, 2008
6:06 PM
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Bit of bad harping in this message. Fair go, as we all can't be great players overnight. I listen to some music on the radio and often think that I can play loads better than the harp player on the recording. Funny though it doesn't matter what I think if the music overall is liked by the listeners. It's too easy to be critical of others wheras I believed this forum was a means to share information and help each other.
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Miles
Guest
Aug 15, 2008
11:53 PM
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I Agree. About half way through that "Head Trip", i was thinking the exact same thing. I myself am a skateboarder. I go to skate parks and see Experienced skaters pushing kids out of the way, yelling at them, and just being very brutal.
We ALL have to remember that we ALL started as beginners. WE ALL SUCKED! Our Entire Harp Career, or (skate career) is based on Making mistakes and practicing through those mistakes. Part of Practicing the Harp is also going to the bars, clubs or wherever you play, and making those mistakes. ALL of those mistakes.
We have to remember, that if we TRULY love our instrument. if really have a burning desire to achieve everything we can on the harmonica.
We need to embrace EVERY thing about the harp. Beginners, Bad players, Good players, lip pursers, tongue blockers, Stinky smelling players.
"Nobody..... Knows Nothing"
Beginners, are the future of our Harp world.
I dont know about you but when im old and gray, my lips are worn down to the nub, i want a place to be able to play harp, and a world to live in where the harp is always an accepted instrument, a loved instrument.
When we make the sacrifice to play harp. the practice, the neverending studying, we also have to remember THE MOST IMPORTANT thing.
ACCELERATE THE SPARK OF HARMONICA.
That is Exactly what Adam is doing here.
after all, new ideas new licks, new riffs. Will NEVER be created without Minds. New Minds, Different Minds, Wierd Minds, Obsessed minds, and INEXPERIENCED Minds.
Keep Playing, and HAVE SOME FUN!
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LittleJoeSamson
24 posts
Aug 16, 2008
9:55 AM
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Perhaps I did not make myself clear. This other "player" is not young and is supposedly experienced. What made it an unpleasant experience was more his bad attitude, and that affects his playing, imo. There is proper etiquette, and the opposite. One thing all harp players should know is that we have a reputation among many other players that we 1. play too much, 2. play too loud, 3. "step'" on others while they are playing, 4. that we don't listen or watch for cues from the others. This lack of discipline by some makes it tougher for us all. I know of some git and keys players that absolutely refuse to play with any harmonica, period.
I also teach, and this is one of the hardest lessons. Because I have been showing the student how to play, and then I have to show them when NOT to play.
There is a big difference between being a rhythm player, or a side player. There are some that see the drums, bass, and perhaps rhythm guitar; and the harp player plays constantly...as part of the rhythm section. This is usually a mistake. The harp is more like a horn in a full band...an accent piece and feature soloist. Otherwise, it should be played sparingly. Now, in a small group as a duo or trio, yeah, then it may be essential to play backing rhythm throughout the song.
Look at what many of the "stars" do. Kim Wilson, Rod Piazza, Mark Hummel will often put the harps down; and either just sing or set off to the side. It's all a part of dynamics.
Sure, we all start out limited. I had my learning curve, and listened to friends early on. When they say, "Don't play so much", don't get offended...they're helping you.
One of my long time buddies, a superb bass player, told me, "Always hold something back and wait for your spot. Then, when it is your solo, let it rip!".
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Miles
Guest
Aug 17, 2008
7:01 AM
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Yes, i understand that he was, a jerk or rude.
But the message gets you nowhere...... Look at the replies. This is a channel use for harp players to share their knowledge, and you were sharing knowledge. but not the stuff that most of us want to hear. By the way, thanks for the tip with the PA! I didnt know that.
If you don't mind, im sure theres a lot of us who do not know how to mic up. If you can, will you please share a little with us? We really appreciate your experience. -Thank you
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LittleJoeSamson
27 posts
Aug 18, 2008
12:16 AM
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Hi Miles. Most stage or PA mic's are fixed for vocals. They run straight into the head or the board, and are very hot. That is, they are very sensitive and pick up easily. Now, a REALLY good sound tech can dial in the right equalization, but even the good ones I know are practically clueless when it comes to harmonica. The levels have to be none to little treble, mid Mids, and plenty of bass. Again, watch the pro's. They have their own amps, effects, mic's, cables.... All the sound is what THEY want; THEN it is mic'ed or lined out to the mains.
Another thing is most stage mic's are ball mic's. These work as a hand held, but what happens in playing is the harp/hand/mic tends to wobble around...affecting the sound.
When I started out umpteen years ago and could only afford a cheap ball mic, I removed the wire mesh and flattened the top as much as I could to prevent this. Had a mid 70's Yamaha amp that I hiked from my brother. Solid state and no warmth whatsoever. What an awful sound! But it was loud enough, and it was mine. I would have had no gigs if not for learning the licks for "Road House" by the Doors and "The Wizard" by Black Sabbath.
For most players: find your own gear and your own sound. Get a decent mic with volume control. Stay out of the mains as much as possible. Keep listening and make it fun!
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superchucker77
63 posts
Aug 18, 2008
5:25 AM
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Amen to that Miles :)
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SUNDOG
31 posts
Aug 18, 2008
6:55 PM
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I think most of us just didn't bother to respond, Especially me (A 504 Dog Years Old Guy).
r,
Neal
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Miles Dewar
3 posts
Aug 18, 2008
9:46 PM
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Thanks for the info LittleJoe! Some good stuff. Ill be sure to take note.
Have Fun! and keep Harpin'
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------ Be Positive ------
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Tuckster
17 posts
Aug 19, 2008
8:26 AM
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LJS- I have to disagree somewhat on playing through the P.A. So would James Cotton & SB II, to name just two greats who play through a vocal mic. Also, all the major players I've seen in the last 5 years have a least one "acoustic" song where they play into a vocal mic. Granted, I've had more bad experiences playing through the P.A.than good. Thin, bright sound- even though my tone is decent. Soundmen are pretty clueless about harp. A soundman can make you sound like s**t. Always be nice to the soundman! A soundman buddy of mine can get me a dirty Chicago sound thru the P.A., but he's a rare exception. He won't tell me how he does it, but at least one thing he does is let the mic input on the board clip a little to add some "dirt" to the mic.
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Blind Lemon Yoder
Guest
Aug 19, 2008
11:05 AM
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I own and play through many old vintage "ball" hand held mics with no problems. Some of them sound pretty good too. As far as playing directly into a PA just take some care in adjusting the levels/tone and then play like your plugged into your favorite amp. Cup the mic to get BIG fat tone just like you would through your amp. James Cotton is a fine example of HUGE tone through a PA. Most of the old time cats played that way too. Sometimes I can even get effects through the PA that I can't with playing through an amp. Oh, and you never have to worry about being LOUD enough. Plus you don't need to lug around your amp and risk getting it stolen or broken. Give the PA a try. You'll like it.
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LittleJoeSamson
32 posts
Aug 19, 2008
11:56 AM
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Oh yes, one can play thru the PA, but not without some tweaking. Seems there are different tricks. Butterfield was common into the mains, but he ran clean anyway. Special mic's?
Rod P has a pedal that he switches when he goes from vocals to playing...usually chromatic. I think it's a chorus/delay. He told me one time but I forget.
Can be done; but when it is not set up well, it can sound really bad.
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