bluesnut
20 posts
Aug 01, 2008
5:47 PM
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i have been playing harp with a blues guitarist and he is very experienced. he is the leader of a blues band called Downtown Charlie and the Humbones in Hawaii. my problem is getting in the pocket with my harp playing. dose anybody have any tips or experiences you could share?
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2008 5:51 PM
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eharp
71 posts
Aug 01, 2008
7:00 PM
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keep it simple.
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oldwailer
136 posts
Aug 01, 2008
8:58 PM
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Hi,
I have some experience with this in two ways--one, I have been a guitar player for about 40 odd years and have had a few so-called harp players play with me. Mostly they just walked all over my vocals and solos--which would have been OK with me if they were really sounding that good. . .
In the last year or so I have taken up harp--and I am starting to sometimes jam with guitar players. I just hang back a lot--let them take solos--let them sing while I chord along lightly--only take solos when I get the nod--then drop back when the solo ends. As eharp has said--"keep it simple."
I have some advantage in that I can tell something about what to do by watching their fingers--but mostly I just listen closely as possible and try to add to the music as best I can.
I always come away thinking I don't know enough--and that gets me back to work on Dr. Gussows lessons. Last Wednesday though, at an open mike--I had a really good time with it--things were falling together for me--sometimes it felt really great . . .I don't even know what song the guitarist was doing--I just got into a groove and floated with it. The applause was the best I have ever heard in that place--and I have been there a lot.
As a side-note--playing the harp onstage in full gear is roughly 5 times as much work as playing the guitar at full tilt. There is a reason the harpist always seems to sweat the most--and it ain't all in the leather jacket and felt hat!
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2008 9:00 PM
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LittleJoeSamson
9 posts
Aug 02, 2008
3:48 AM
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I play professionally in two bands and in a duo with the guitar player of one of the bands.
The key to playing with anyone else, but especially just one other player is tastefulness. When the other person is singing or soloing, you are just doing rhythm. Sometimes it is the main melody, other times it is a counter rhythm. Many times, being silent or quiet is the best.
I find octaving is very useful in doing backup. Also, first position is often neglected. In all but the lowest keys with a diatonic, stay in 1-7 most of the time.
On some songs, you can do a call-and-answer with yourself with two harps and a stationary mic. One hand would have the 2nd position harp, and the other would have the 3rd position one.
Breath control is essential. The soft staccato is most pleasing if not overdone. If you are amped, having a chorus effect spreads the dynamics. This is good on minor keyed songs.
It helps if you sing, too.
Check out other duos: Terry & McGee, Madcat & Kane, Mansfield/Turner...
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Oxharp
10 posts
Aug 03, 2008
4:28 AM
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Hi bluesnut, I recently went to a Blues Jam and had a break through in that I got up on stage and tried to do what I normally do and that is too much playing and not enough listening. But for some reason I was not as nervous as I usually am and I watched for my solo and was sympathetic to the rest of the instruments including the voice. Although my solo was not as good as I had imagined it to sound listening back at it I think the background playing under the band was better than it usually is and I was rewarded with a duel with the guitar player. A sort of sponateous thing happend and I just went with it. It may not be the best in the world but I have only been playing for 18 months. My mistake was to get to carried away when the keyboards at (2:45) started his solo. I forgot to turn my volume down to background level but the sound that I made was alot different since I learnt to tongue block. At 3:34 I noticed that the dymnamics of the band were changing so I tried to encourage the guitar player to follow me which he did and the band leader noticed and at 4 mins he tells the guitar to duel with me and I felt a fantastic buzz run through me. The repeted lick that followed at 4:22 sort of worked. That was the best I have played live so far. I think if you have a study of this you will hopfully get some good points about playing with a guitarist and generally background vamping and staying off the vocals and other solos. I had a great reponse from the band and the crowd after. Hope this helps Russ
BTY the link is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRglvrJO8nw
Please comment good or bad I only want to get better.
Last Edited by on Aug 03, 2008 8:43 AM
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Patrick Barker
106 posts
Aug 03, 2008
10:30 AM
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Good job oxharp! You and that guitarist really locked in during the duel.
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"Without music, life would be a mistake" -Nietzsche
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bluesnut
21 posts
Aug 03, 2008
1:09 PM
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Aloha Oxharp,
Re:youtube;GREAT JOB. How often do you get up on stage per month?
Last Edited by on Aug 03, 2008 1:11 PM
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snakes
14 posts
Aug 04, 2008
8:18 AM
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Had the pleasure of watching oldwailer jam last Wednesday. You were awesome man! I really enjoyed the open mic and will try to make it up there sometime (can't this Wed.). Will be less shy about playing my harp next time (perhaps). You will have to put up with my Suziki's, though...
Oh, and on another note I just received the DVD (vol 1?) from Dr. Gussow. I must say this is going to be very helpful and definitely something I'll play often. It has a lot of the lessons and is well worth the money. Aaaaah, now if I could only buy an extra hour a day as easy as a vowel on Wheel of Fortune.
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Oxharp
11 posts
Aug 04, 2008
10:35 AM
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Hi bluesnut, patrick barker and eharp, Thanks for your comments its great to know you are on the right track.
I practice at home most nights and listen to blues most days in my driving job with a cd player.
I go to the jam once a month if I can but things are hard with a young family etc.
The best advice I can give anyone is to just listen. Find a song that you really love. mine was driftin by paul butterfield. Listen again and try and just listen to the guitar. Listen again and just listen for the bass etc. Each time you listen try and build an imaginary solo and think what you would play. If you listen enough and learn to play just the 12 bar progression without any fancy stuff, you will find that you will be humming you harp part subconsiously and thats where to start. you have to sort of try and internalise what you would play and then build up your tone and techniques around what you know you have heard before in other recordings. but dont overdo the practise. you will learn faster by training you muscle memory with 3x20 mins a day at one song rather than trying to play all of them. I spent 3 weeks on just holes 123 and all the possibilities draw and blow etc. I strongly recommend getting Dave Barretts Harmonica master class series as It has been a real sorce of information to me.
Hope this helps. Hey have any of you guys done a you tube so I can see it. I sent my first one (Red House)to Dr Gussow and got a good structured response. If we all pool our experience we can bring every one on to better enjoyemnt of this wonderful instrument. Sorry to go on.
Cheers Russ
Last Edited by on Aug 04, 2008 10:39 AM
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bluesnut
22 posts
Aug 04, 2008
11:59 AM
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the guitar guy likes baby please don't go and so do i. that is the focus for know. no youtube yet.
Last Edited by on Aug 04, 2008 12:00 PM
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eharp
76 posts
Aug 04, 2008
3:36 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZtcNaj-Moo
there you go, ox.
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Patrick Barker
108 posts
Aug 04, 2008
3:58 PM
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I did a high school talent show with the band I'm in a while ago (I don't come in on harp until later on in the song):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnrknRPkZSU
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"Without music, life would be a mistake" -Nietzsche
Last Edited by on Aug 04, 2008 3:59 PM
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Aussiesucker
17 posts
Aug 04, 2008
5:23 PM
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This is an interesting thread. Admire all of you YouTube stars doing us proud. I'm an old timer been playing harp on and off for a long long time and whilst I don't play with a group I do jam (if you could call it that as I really like Country & slow blues) with recorded tracks. I was wondering if others had used, amongst their armory of tricks/effects, a Tremolo harp? I purchased a couple in A & C as Mickey Raphael (Willie Nelsons harp player) occasionally uses them with really great effect. I feel that the harp player has to demonstrate sensitivity towards the singer and other members of the group and hang back ie 'only speak when you are spoken to'! The occasional use of a Tremolo IMHO can fill up a lot of empty spaces in a non intrusive way and really add to the mood of the music. For example if the tune is about a cold wintry day then a simple 1st pos riff from a Tremolo can send shivers down the spine. To understand what I am saying just listen to Mickey playing with Willie on the song 'Till I Gain Control Again' in key of c on which he uses an F Harp & a C tremolo.
Last Edited by on Aug 04, 2008 5:25 PM
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LittleJoeSamson
10 posts
Aug 04, 2008
6:20 PM
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I have not tried a tremolo harp, but on some soft country / Piedmont blues numbers I set the tremolo effect high and with delay, then playing in 1st pos. It's eerie and sweet at the same time. Two of the songs that we do this way are "Cain't be Satisfied" and "Lucky Larue".
The other band where I do this is on the song "Love the One You're With" by CS&N, but totally mellowed down and smooth. Almost jazz. I play chromatic in 1st and do background octaving TB, until my solo that is single note. The tremolo/delay effect makes it sound like you are in a huge concert hall with echo.
Both my guitar players love me...a very rare situation amongst musicians.
Another thing to add was I dialed in the perfect settings for the amp's. Had them lined into the main's and was Goldilocks loud and absolutely NO feedback, even when I put the mic right in front of the power amp. Hit the TONE ZONE.
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MD1032
3 posts
Aug 07, 2008
5:58 AM
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I think the key to starting to play live is learning to fit in, first of all. Learn how to keep rhythm with the harmonica with any time signature or tempo, even if it's just by repeating a few notes. Sometimes just hitting the 2 hole draw on the offbeats and adding some other stuff in between is the appropriate response. Whatever fits, just do that, and keep doing it. Then once you get the feel and get the signal, go at it, but keep the solo simple.
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Miles
Guest
Aug 17, 2008
7:38 AM
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Awesome OxHarp!
you rock dude. 18 months, Keep it up!
If you have any good tips for beginners, Just feel free to help us out.
And keep it up!
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