mic
35 posts
Jul 14, 2008
9:23 PM
|
If I have to tell the truth...my improv really sucks.
Sometimes it helps to just say it out loud.
A big part of what I love about the harmonica is the challenge it offers, the frustration and the ultimate victory. Then moving on to the next challenge.
I don't seem to be making much progress in the improv area. Been watching Adam's you-tube series on the jam track download. Has me fired up enough to go out and buy another computer, just so I can download the jam track.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step...right?
There I fessed up! My improvisational stuff sucks, and I aim to fix it. Any tips would be appreciated.
|
Baker
6 posts
Jul 15, 2008
2:33 AM
|
My advice is listen to everything. Get your hands on as much material as you can, harmonica stuff, guitar stuff, piano stuff, vocal, whatever you can and what ever you like and just listen to it (a lot) :)
Get a feel for what works. Which notes over which cords. Steal bits. After a while you won't need to think about which hole makes what note, it'll just come naturally.
|
DutchBones
14 posts
Jul 15, 2008
5:18 AM
|
Baker said it all...listen, listen and then listen some more...
I once read somewhere that listening to music is an active thing, not passive....after that I tried to listen to the different roles that each instrument plays to add to the song..(in some situations, adding means laying back and not playing)... anyway you'll larn a lot from active listening.
To improve your improv (pun intended) it as hard to just play all kinds of riffs (which you have remembered) and hope they'll fit with the song (chords)
So to get a feel of WHAT to play WHERE , you should first try to play only the root-note for each chord (2 draw for I chord, 4 blow for the IV chord and the 4 draw for the V chord)
Once you can play those single notes thoughout the whole song (12 bars) you start to play around with those root notes...perhaps repeat them (3 quick ones instead of 1 long one, or add 1 or 2 notes in front of them, add some rhytem....just remember...you NEED TO END ON THE ROOT NOTE TO EXPRESS THE CHORD.....
So for the I chord you might play 1 draw, 2 blow, 2 draw..
for the IV chord 2 draw, 3 draw , 4 blow and for the
V chord 3 draw, 4 blow , 5 draw....
The point is to expand slowly but surely...if you can bend, go for it, add some bends, as long as you go back to the root note to express the chord......
Hope this helps
|
Leanground
20 posts
Jul 15, 2008
5:42 AM
|
Good thing about harmonica...it only sucks on half the notes
This forum continues to stimulate furthur search and discovery, thanks to one and all
|
Philosofy
34 posts
Jul 15, 2008
7:11 AM
|
Here's a tip I saw on a TV show (Young Indiana Jones) that makes sense. Some musician gave Indy a trumpet, and instructed him to play "Mary Had a Little Lamb." He only played that song: over and over and over. When he knew it backwards and forwards, he would throw a little stuff of his own in there. Eventually, he did a whole jazz version of the song.
Also, in the movie Finding Forrester, Sean Connery's character taught a young writer to break out of writer's block by simply copying a story. After half a page or so, the kid's creative juices flowed, and instead of copying, he took the story in a different direction.
I think the secret to improv is to know where the music is going, step away from it, then back into it. Get a riff that works in the music, use it, tweak it, then go back to it again.
|
SUNDOG
23 posts
Jul 15, 2008
9:47 AM
|
Many times I whistle along with the song. I find that if I can whistle it I can play it or at least know what to play.
When at a live Jam I whistle with the first pass and thn try it out with the harp on the next.
r,
Neal
Last Edited by on Jul 15, 2008 9:52 AM
|
b1ueskyz
4 posts
Jul 15, 2008
9:54 AM
|
OK... this from a real newbie that is experiencing the same 'improv' problem. Here's the approach I'm taking and it seems to be helping.
As the others have said, LISTEN... LISTEN... LISTEN
I've been listening not just to blues with major harp parts but to jazz. I listen for little licks, hooks, and riffs and figure them out and jot down some tab notes for each one. Most are from 3 - 10 notes. I now have a small library of these that I play over and over in different combinations. I don't generally play with changing the notes too much, I concentrate on changing the timing to make the riff fit the song I'm playing along with. Combining them in different ways has produced some combos that I personally like and have decided will be part of what makes up 'my' sound. And being a newbie, I make a lot of mistakes (blow when I should draw, up a hole when I should have gone down) and in the process I create more little riffs that I like and will put in my bag.
Just an idea from someone who realizes he hasn't got an original creative bone in his body but isn't going to let that stop him!
Last Edited by on Jul 15, 2008 9:55 AM
|
TBone69
18 posts
Jul 15, 2008
5:46 PM
|
practice practice practice, learn a couple of riffs then string them together.
My improv really sucked in the beginning now it just sucks. Start out with the Mannish Boy riff then start addind a little to it and pretty soon you will be on your way.
I have also started playing around with the Jams Tracks and like to play along with on the Blues channel on Sirius.
Just keep playing and mixing it up and have fun. The more you play the more you figure out.
Harp on!
TBone
|
mic
37 posts
Jul 15, 2008
8:24 PM
|
All good stuff. Thanks guys. Been reading and re-reading each of them. Turns out my improv is wanting, because it's not one of the things I have been working on.
Went out and bought another CPU today. First thing I did with it was download the Hilbert jam track from MBH/Trade-bit. Downloaded without a hitch!
Can't remember when I have had so much fun with my harps.
Don't get me wrong I still have my work cut out for me. But I have noticed improvment just from the tips you guys passed along and working with Charley. Feels great to bust out a long, hard 4 draw in the 9th, then walk it on down to the 1 draw at the turn around. I know thats just one option. People that don't play the harp...what do they do for fun?
Thanks for the tips guys. Thanks Adam and Charley for the B.T.
|
mic
38 posts
Jul 15, 2008
9:20 PM
|
One of the cuts on the CD, Charley says "look out" or "watch out". Then he goes into a guitar solo.
It's like He's saying "shut up on that harp for a minute,
this one's mine!" Cracks me up. Like he's in the room with you.
|
T. Hutch
6 posts
Jul 15, 2008
11:03 PM
|
After I picked up on Adams` lesson on the Blues Scale and practicing the scale over and over again, daily and paying keen attention hoe Adam builds Improv Riffs just inside of the scale, I`ve improved 100%. So, after this breakthrough I ran into Jason Riccis` 3 or 4 You Tube lessons on scale work and Improv stuff, I`m now covering the whole 10 holes in creating my riffs and , most importantly, having a good time!
I logged a topic on Charlie Musselwhites` cut "Finger Lickin` Good" (which is on YT), but did`nt get no feedback from any blues players out there and I was wondering if you may have found out I did`nt brush my teeth today? Hey, I thought when I asked the first time that it was my beleif that there was some "poop" in that cut that I`de like to find out how yo put together.
If your out there, let me know what`s shakin` besides the leaves in the trees......
|
mic
39 posts
Jul 16, 2008
8:10 AM
|
T. Hutch, I saw the topic, but there wasn't a link to the video. I guess I was too lazy to search for it.
|
T. Hutch
7 posts
Jul 16, 2008
12:38 PM
|
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=sn891rBgKAc&feature=related..
Mic: Heres that link for the Musselwhite cut I was referring to. Do you have Adams` lesson on the Blues Scale? Or have you checked out Jason Riccis` YT videos on scale work? These will really help you on your improv work.. Down the Bend...Them would`nt be shakin` if was`nt fer da breeze! Take it light...Later on...
|
mic
40 posts
Jul 16, 2008
1:56 PM
|
Links are a good thing. I did get off my #!@$ and looked it up. Yes, I did get Adam's you tube scale video.
It's one of the core lessons I'm working on right now.
That and counting out the beat and chord changes.
..2.2.3.4 3.2.3.4 4.2.3.4...
Have not checked out Jasons stuff yet. Been working with the jam track cut, "easy". Having a blast!
Been a few hours since I listened to the finger licken good
video. If I remember right it did seem like he stuck to the scale pretty close with some up and down walking licks.
I like everything Charley Musselwhite does.
So much harp...so little time!
|
kudzurunner
70 posts
Jul 16, 2008
6:36 PM
|
This is a great thread. Pooling tips & experience is where the internet really contributes in a major way.
Learning the blues scale is key. But so is learning the 12-bar blues progression--really KNOWING it, in your bones. I find that many developing players who have trouble with improvisation have that trouble for the same reason that developing writers have trouble: they're just not sure where they're going. Counting your way through 12 bar blues at every possible moment during the day helps a lot with that. If you drive or commute to work, put on a blues playlist and see if you can plug into the ONE-2-3-4 TWO-2-3-4.......TWELVE-2-3-4 count on each song, at whatever tempo the song is in.
Then put on jam tracks and play along with them for days. A beer or two sometimes helps.
Pay attention to the moment when all of a sudden things are clicking. Why did they click? Growing as an improviser is about a series of very small, subtle understandings.
Record your practice sessions and listen back to them. Be discerning without being too self-critical. At what moments do you suddenly HAVE it? What makes those moments sound good?
(A lot of the time it's because you have four things going for you: 1) you're playing from your soul; 2) you project the sense that you know where you are in the blues progression; 3) you're playing IN TIME, on the beat; and 4) you're flowing.
#3 is as important as any other. It takes lots of practice time and gigs, though, to get to the point where you're able to sink into the groove....and twice as long to get to the point that you're able to swing ahead of it and float behind it, deliberately. But if you know that's what you're trying for, you can begin to figure out some practice routines--such as always tapping your foot, and always striving to connect strongly with the groove in whatever jam track you're playing with--that improve your playing over the long run.
--Adam
Last Edited by on Jul 16, 2008 6:37 PM
|
Tweed
20 posts
Jul 20, 2008
8:46 PM
|
Dr G's post is a hard act to follow and is right on. Here's mine. First of all you must know and be able to follow the I, IV, V progression, know where you are at all times, (not always easy). I usually put Dr G's tab sheet outline, (spreadsheet) in front of me when I jam and use it to keep track of where I am. Also know what notes to start and end in each bar. Write these down on the spreadsheet so in a panic you can always end the bar on these notes.
Next, as been said, listen listen and listen. You'll find many riffs that are repeated in one form or another by the greats or good players. For example Adam's John Lee Hooker Boogie is a very useful and common riff that Adam also plays in "Checkin Up on My Baby" and that you will hear in lots of blues tunes. Listen to Sonny Boy's version of Checkin and throw those riffs into the jam and other improv's as well. Also Adams Powerhouse Grove riffs can be played in a lot of spots. There are also lots of common endings and turnarounds. For example the blues scale 6 blow down.
Once you start doing this, and it doesn't happen overnight, you may wake up, like I did this morning with an ending riff in my head that I had heard a couple times and immediately harp'd and tabbed it.
This is a great thread as improvising is where it's at. Adam himself says his arrangements are not copies of the originals and why should they be. That's what harp is all about.
When in doubt wail hard on the 45 draw!
Another thought after listening to an hour of streaming blues radio. Learn to get into the groove of the song while your improving. It makes improving much easier.
Tweed
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2008 6:57 PM
|
mic
45 posts
Jul 24, 2008
8:19 PM
|
What are some of the other options for the root notes of the I, IV and V chords? (2D,4B,4D)
Been working on all the items listed above and am getting better. Sticking to the root notes has my improv sounding rather redundant.
Is there a you tube video on the subject?
Guess I'm taking the easy way out by asking this...could hit the books. Octives are a good place to start, yes? 1D=4D.
1B=4B...
What is a good recorder to use to record and playback your sessions? DutchBones once told about one he used.It was a hand held model that would play back at half speed.
Don't remember the model or make.
Last Edited by on Jul 24, 2008 8:25 PM
|
Miles
Guest
Aug 17, 2008
8:06 AM
|
I have found problems with my Improv (Many). I would be scared if i didn't. I think that would mean that im slow, or "dumb" not catching what im doing wrong.
But i know that EVERY time i pick up that harp, or sit and obsessively think about it. I get a hair better, or at least an inch further to finding that mistake that i must fix.
Practice, Practice, Practice.
I am a Freestyle Skateboarder, and many beginning skateboarders are surpised when i tell them that you CAN inprov on the skateboard. "You don't always have to know how to get to something to get to it."
When i do my improv practice on the skateboard, my goal is to come up with NEW tricks, and NEW movements that i have never done before.
When i improv on the skateboard, I SUCK! i swear people have to think im mentally retarded. but you know what? I do it, because it does lead to new things. And when its practice time or "Wood Shed" time i believe your supposed to suck sometimes.
I just try to play, when i suck i stop, take a few minutes to think and try to find out why i sucked.
Thank you all for your Knowledge. And thank you for using this forum in a constructive manner. It helps me a lot! Hopefully i gave you all a new viewpoint.
Keep Harpin! and have fun!
|
oldwailer
148 posts
Aug 17, 2008
7:05 PM
|
Yeah. . .some movie star or producer or something once said it this way. . ."Always be yourself--unless you suck."
|
