We know it takes a lot of practice to get the technical things up to par regarding playing the harmonica.
How about the "feeling" part of playing music...Should that be practiced too or should it just come natural?
Just like you can over play, under play, screw up technically...Is it possible to mess up a song because your "feeling" has not been nutured so to speak?
We always here the saying "play with feeling" and you'll be fine...
Is that easier said then done - What are the best tips to incorporate "feeling" into your music?
What do you do to get your music so it penetrates others to actually "feel" it?
how can you practice feeling? my vote is, you have that in two ways, 1. confidence in what youve learned, or 2. you had it long before you ever picked up the harp....
I'm certainly no expert on this. but from a tech. perspective a few things come to mind.
Scooping notes give them much more flavor, also let other holes bleed in if you want to be really expressive. like that classic blue third with a bit of 4. Wich I found very difficult to sound good, holding them on lower key harps.
And adjust and play with your dynamics in combination with the rest. Easier said than done. I often tend play to enthousiastic, just out of enjoyment
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2012 3:26 PM
Dynamics is the number one thing that stands out to me when you hear pro playing. I also notice it when I'm trying to learn a new tune - you think you've got it when you've figured out the notes, but when you listen back you realise you're missing all the expression. That's part of the value of trying to match a recording (or 'copying and pasting' if you prefer to demean it).
Sometimes I feel that making an emotional connection with the song is a good start. Choosing a song that gives you the chills when you hear it is a good one for players to try and play with feeling.
To have a desire to transmit to others what you are feeling yourself when you visualise hearing the song. To examine what are the ingredients that excite or move you when you hear it. Often it can be little subtleties such as dynamics, tone variation, textures so that it doesn't come across as painting by numbers but it means something.
To feel at one with the melody, connect with it and give it your all like you really mean it. You know, like the song really means something to you personally and you're playing it for someone you really care for who loves that particular song and you want to play it and express it and transmit it to the best of your ability.
It doesn't want to be something that presents a technical challenge as that will re-direct your thoughts to the mechanics of playing.
Certain pieces of music naturally contain a lot of depth and emotion as a composition and these are good ones to use.
There is one piece of music, an Irish lament played on the Irish pipes by Davy Spillane that gets me every time I hear it, I can't explain why but around 1min48secs in and something deeply connects with me.
'I also notice it when I'm trying to learn a new tune - you think you've got it when you've figured out the notes, but when you listen back you realise you're missing all the expression.'
That's so true Jodan
I've found this too especially when trying to copy a song. You're so chuffed when you've got the notes sorted out but then you think why doesn't it sound the same as the player. The next bit is really the hardest part because you are trying to get to the magic of the subtleties of a player and that is nigh on impossible to pull off completely because that's his natural invented style and not ours. ---------- Grey Owl YouTube Grey Owl Abstract Photos
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2012 4:07 PM
i never understood "playing with feeling". would somebody post an example. all i ever hear is the music. sure it might move me, but is that the player or listener?
if i go with kyzer's explanations, 1) it would seem a simple jump to say micheal jordan played with feeling or 2) it is useless to discuss this. this isnt an attack on kyzer. he is the only one who tried to explain it rather than a possible means to fake it (but since i dont know what it is i will have to believe them).
i mean- bleeding a second note in?? using dynamics?? anyone can learn this. heck. i do do this! maybe i am playing with feeling. but i sort of thought just a solid 2 draw, played with "feeling", would stand out from any dynamically played scoop i would do.
as for my answer to part of frank's opener- the vast majority of listeners aint gonna know if you have an un-natured feeling. i consider myself more of a listener than player. i dont take the harmonica nearly as seriously as most of the forum members. i could probaly think of only 4 or 5 cases where i thought something was being played with feeling. usually having to do with "taps". but that was because i could see the tears of the player. if i just listened....i dont think i could separate them.
maybe think of it like singing, or speaking may be even better, because just about everyone speaks...and if you say something you mean you speak differently...
1 thing i am working on is to not pull faces when i play, rather than showing expression in the face to try and do it with the music..so going deliberately for blank face, all the movement is with the breath...thats the concept i have in mind anyway..
What I metioned was just from a technical perspective. I try to keep it simple (for myself) cause 'feeling'is hard to grasp, I've got no definition. anyway I think it's a continuum.
And your right about everybody can learn the stuff I mentioned but I think it's more about when and were using it.
about the 3-4 draw; I just listend back to sonny boy's 'baby please don't go' When he plays along the 'please don't go' he plays that 3-4 loud and expressive. At the singing 'you know I love you so' It's sweeter more timd in volume. Same goes for the other lines. That's what playing with feeling means to me. It suits the lyrics and the music
I hope this will become a long thread I like hear what others think.
@eharp "i never understood "playing with feeling". would somebody post an example" Here's one. If this isn't playing with feeling I don't know what is! Jason is emotionally connected to what he is delivering. The whole band's in there as well. Enjoy.
1) Screw up your eyeballs real tight while playing a long wail 2) pull a weird face, kinda like halfway between a) thinking something really profound and b) having an orgasm 3) bend over double like you're looking for small change on the floor. 4) stand up again and inspect the ceiling for signs of damp 5 Finish up with a little flick of your head - like the girl in the Timotei ad.
i see it but dont hear it. eyes closed (which i did first)- it sounded very athletic. and then at the end he just casually strolls to his harp case...? sure didnt look like he was tied to the song at that point. wouldnt you think there would be a couple of seconds, hands away from the face at the end of the song, where we could see the feeling?
btw- i saw him 3 nights in a row a few years ago- each show was a carbon copy, imo.
i think this is as subjective as the "white man cant sing the blues" threads.
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2012 5:47 PM
Good topic. Agreed- Playing with feeling is much easier said than done. If you have to think about playing with feeling then you're likely not palying with feeling - that would be contrived. Playing with feeling therefore must come naturally and unselfconsciously. As an observer of those who play with feeling, you know the musician is moved and you know that the music is moving you. In that case, the music is coming from the musician's soul...it's all truth. One obvious example to me is Jason Ricci at last year's Hill Country event.
I think this is my best advice to playing with feeling: know everywhere that there is a root note for the I, IV and V chords and practice chord changes. If you know where there is a root note to hit you can eliminate train wrecks on stage... You can play with a lot more feeling if you can be confident you don't have a train wreck... The old saying goes hit the beginning and end of a chord and the middle will take care of itself.
Also, if you are switching from "thinking and planning" to pure "feel" mode, turning on the emotional autopilot, you're best off if you can feel the beat. If you've got a drummer, it's easy to maintain a consciousness of that beat. If not, tap your foot or move, just make sure you've got a strong consciousness of time.
I think you cannot practice emotion, but i think those give you the freedom to feel. We can all feel music if we let ourselves, what keeps us from doing it more is fear of falling flat on our asses. If a little theory and knowlege of where notes are can alleviate that fear, then you've more freedom to feel.
@eharp I'm sorry but I don't really get your point.
As for seeing 'feeling' but not hearing it. What about the difference between any studio version and a live recording. though the sound quality is often worse, live recordings often have more feeling to me..and I think for the artists as well.
you say 'all i ever hear is the music. sure it might move me, but is that the player or listener?'
Why can't it be both? Do you know any songs that move you as listener but probably don't mean a thing to the artist. I can't come up with an example for myself, off course you can nver know for sure..
It may indeed be useless to discuss.
But the question was more if you could learn/develop it. I had a friend he was a terrible good guitar player. Metal, at age 16 he played the old metallica (ride the lightning stuff) 'twice' as fast and more crisp. No shit it just sounds better. He went to the conservatorium in Amsterdam, after a few months I heared him play, he played with much more feeling I could tell right away(and he totally agreed). Sure he was talented before, but the stuff he did then he did learn.
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2012 7:12 PM
When YOU feel it...you will know it...it's when the notes take flight from deep inside you... this thread makes me think of the old expressions..."man, that guy was really in to it" or "that was deep man"... I guess to sum it up in my opinion...your brain and body drift into musical place that really isn't in the room any more...
@eharp: yeah I haven't watched that for a while, but I think I know what you mean. I wasn't talking about putting on a show though, I was talking about playing with feeling. Just thinking back to a conversation I had with JimiLee a short while ago. It was about learning to play with feeling, kind of. Learning to play, and especially we were talking about breath. He advocates not doing anything that doesn't need doing. Like eyebrow movements for example. But he wasn't saying don't do it, once you've learned to play pretty good. Just that the whole posturing and face pulling thing is more like acting than playing music, so if you deny yourself that avenue of expression it maybe helps focus on the sound production. I think I know what he meant by that. Music, not showmanship. As RE says on that video, he is not about teaching you how to play. Edited to include mention that specifically we were talking tremolo production ----------
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2012 8:25 PM
It's funny you said that Jim Rumbaugh. I wanted to give a similar example. If you make drums with midi (no matter how good the sound samples) it's dead on center 140 bpm is 140 bmp, it's too mechanical. I recall you had a function in Q base called 'humanizing' this would randomly alter the timing slighly and the attack too, so it would sound more like an actuall drummer. It would sound way better that way.
But a real drummer doesn't do this random, so it sounds like it should, with feeling.
There are times when My playing is dramatically better than other times. I know it happens when I stop over thinking my playing. My mind clears and it just clicks in. I feel like I am one with the groove.
It's a matter of it being a voice. Playing something on an intellectual basis removes that.
This why why I like Jason's live stuff so much he has so much ability to play that when he gets in the zone the music is there.
I don't know how to practice being in the zone. It happens or it doesn't for me. As I have been getting more proficient, losing myself is more common.
Some grooves just aren't natural for me. Like I don't ever really lose myself in a rumba. Not a common groove for people I jam with to play and no bands I play with play them.
I think it all comes from internalizing the groove and having the vocabulary to let it happen. having the harmonica become an extension of you rather than a instrument.
This is not an easy question to answer as "feeling" means different things to different people. To me some of the factors that help give "feeling" are dynamics, use of space, playing in the groove, phrasing, a good tone and being in the service of the song.
Playing with feeling can be "manufactured" in live performances and sometimes is not at all evident unless you see the same performer a few nights in a row.
For instance, I saw Rod Piazza about 30 years ago in a small blues club in Detroit (actually, only about 20 people showed up). Rod was very impressive the first night. The second night I noticed that something seemed odd - everything was recreated, including the "oh baby"s at certain parts of certain songs. Emotional moans, solos, patter was carbon copy.
While I was very impressed with the "feeling" I experienced that first night, it became diminished when I realized it was all staged after that second night.
So, perhaps this type of performer is best seen just once per tour, as the effect is somewhat genuine.
Witnessing the carbon copy that second night showed that a good performer can fake just about anything - even "feeling". They can turn it on and off on a dime.
Not to take away Rod's abilities, it is just that I enjoy natural in the moment feeling best. However, I would never have caught the contrivances had I only seen one show, so who is to say?? ---------- The Iceman
sometimes, maybe you arent feeling it but you know what to do because youve done it before when you did feel it...and maybe if you start off faking it you might end up making it...method acting...wait. are we still talking about playing the blues...? ----------
Or the best performers are the ones who since they have to "perform a show" 300 days or more a year, they have a way that feels 'good' to them and "natural" when doing the same song constantly so they prefer to evoke that feeling when performing, even if it is similar to how they always do it...Plus keeping the audience in mind and realizing that they respond positively when a song is performed a certain way.
I think technical control of the instrument is a part of it. In order to express oneself, one needs sufficient technical ability to be able to PLAY what you feel and make it come out of the harmonica.
Playing a previously written or recorded part with feeling presents a different challenge, but still requires a certain level of technical ability. It's hard to interpret a piece with feeling if you are struggling with just being able to play the notes.
So, in order to play with feeling, it's pretty helpful to be able to make the harmonica do what you want it to do.
Altering the pitch is a great way to convey feeling, and crossharp makes it easy. Sincerity is the most important thing and once you can fake that, you're home free.
So, say for example the opening riff to "juke" if one has those notes embedded in there heart, soul and mind - they should be able to play that opening line with "feeling", or at least practice incorporating feeling into it... is that correct?
An interesting competition might be, putting up a back track and having members here (who would want to participate) play to it, Everyone uses the same backtrack. Then everyone judges who they think, played with the most "feeling" > not best technique or riffs...
And if the submissions could be entered "anonymously" all the better...
Last Edited by on Apr 12, 2012 8:14 AM
"So, say for example the opening riff to "juke" if one has those notes embedded in there heart, soul and mind - they should be able to play that opening line with "feeling", or at least practice incorporating feeling into it... is that correct?"
Well, I suppose so if that's the type of musical artistic expression you are striving for. Playing good covers accurately and with feeling is a distinct skill.
On the other hand, the musicians I play with both in my blues band and in my duo are religious about never playing ANY tune exactly the same way twice. Using a general arrangement (including accurate melodies, heads and hooks) we play however we happen to be feeling at the moment which is never "just like the record" because, so far as we are concerned, someone else has already done that, so there's no point in us doing the same thing. Other successful bands and duos go to considerable effort to play cover tunes "just like the record." It depends on what sort of artistic goals you have.
FWIW, I suspect Little Walter never played "Juke" exactly the same way twice.
Last Edited by on Apr 12, 2012 10:10 AM
@Frank: This may sound weird, but if one practices scales and arpeggios to the point where you can more-or-less play them without thinking about it, then when you are actually performing, it's easier to focus on timing, delivery and (if not doing a note-for-note cover) note selection, space, note movement and dynamics, which are the building blocks of playing with "feeling."
It's one thing to make what you hear on a recording come out of your harmonica. It's a different thing to make what you hear in your head come out of your harmonica.
A lot of times your ability to re-create what you've heard on a recording will depend on how faithful the accompanying musicians are to the original. On the other hand, what you hear in your head may change as you interact with what your accompanying musicians decide to play. If you've got the chops, it's easier to function with "feeling" in either situation.
Years ago I remember a jam I did with a bunch of guitarists. I had been playing harp for a few years but was ploughing a lone furrow.
Anyway sometime during the jam everything seemed to click in a big way and it was a great groove. We all instinctively recognised something was happening. I suddenly reached this point where the excitement at reaching this level of connection made me feel like I wanted to explode in my playing but my handful of riffs would not cut it. Not thinking but going with the feeling I launched out into unknown territory and this amazing riff appeared and I really couldn't believe I was playing it.
Afterwards the guitarists who had all been playing out of their skins said what the hell happened there and I said I haven't got a clue. Play it again they said and I just couldn't recall what I'd done, it was all in the moment.
I have never actively learnt scales on any instrument I play (That could be to my detriment because knowledge is a good thing) Since becomining more experienced over time I have always heard the notes I want to play over a chord structure in my head and access them when playing instruments. That works for me for Blues, Folk or Pop but not for something like Jazz which I don't have an affinity with. ---------- ---------- Grey Owl YouTube Grey Owl Abstract Photos
Last Edited by on Apr 12, 2012 11:28 AM
feeling is in the performer not the instrument. so,i feel that vibrato gives the piece your feeling. and attack on the lines you`re playing bring out the feeling too.forinstance,if you change up the old lick of draw in on 4&5 and trill or warble it,first draw on the 4&5 and grind down on it to get a slight bend than bring it up and into a hard trill. this is one of Little Walter`s many tricks.......
True story: Once upon a time I was hired to play harmonica in the pit orchestra for a local theatrical production. Had to work from sheet music. Since i don't sight read, i got the charts ahead of time to learn my parts which we recognizable melodies with no room to fudge or improvise.
Showed up for the first rehearsal and there was a girl there who played flute. Very strong player and good reader--she could sight read anything put in front of her and play it WITH FEELING first time through. I was very impressed and completely intimidated.
At one point, the arranger/conductor (who knew me and knew i could improvise) handed me charts for a tune on which he had no part written for me. He told me to fit harp to it if I could. I saw there was a key change, so i got out the 2 harps i needed and blew harp along with the other musicians who were working from written parts, which went extremely well. Then we took a break.
On the break, the flute player literally ran up to me with a stunned look on her face, asking me how i did that. She was astounded that i knew what to play without a written part. Of course, i had been astounded that she could play a written part with such accuracy and feeling first time though. As it turned out, as strong a player as she was, she had no ability to improvise whatsoever. Take the sheet music away from her and she couldn't play competently. But with sheet music in front of her, she could play with as much or more feeling than any musician in the room.
Most classical players are that way. It's rare that you find one that can improvise well. I've met a few but they really work on improv. ---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
@hvyj Interesting experience you had there. I belonged to an art group and there was one artist in particular who could draw the most fantastic life models. Once when there was no model we were told to make up something from the imagination. He just couldn't do anything. Similar to your story. ----------
I could not play a lick without the music in front of me on the trombone until I started playing harmonica. Now I can pick out a tune on the trombone. I am not yet to the point where I will try a blues jam on the trombone, even though I can get on stage and not embarass myself on the harmonica.
I consistently find that my students who were raised reading music on say, piano, have a very difficult time improvising compared to other absolute beginners on harp. I think it is much better to learn to improvise first and then learn to read. Reading has done wonders for my understanding of music. However, I never suggest learning to read except if a concept cannot be learned any other way. If a student wants it, I teach it. Now if a student is with me for 4 years or so, I might suggest it as something else to do.
When it comes to playing with feeling I think one of the types of feeling is very staid and relaxed. I do not spend all day in mania, why would I play that way? I think the point is to be able to sense the way that you are feeling and direct your music to represent that.
Also, recognize that a song is telling a story. If a story calls for a character to be angry, but you are not angry, do you not put inflection in your voice to suggest anger? Is that acting or telling a good story? Personally I believe actors use feeling in their acting quite often, so if you are not angry, but are playing in an angry way, I do not think it is necessarily false. It is acting or storytelling.
I think I would go seriously> absolutely put me in a frigging straight jacket INSANE if as a blues harmonica player (Chicago, jump & swing ) I wasn't able to improvise. I'd kill myself!!!!! There would be no point in living?
That said it is much easier for me to creatively improvise when I have a rhythm section as opposed to totally solo harmonica.
I also enjoy studying tunes and trying to mine the magic which dwells deep inside them...
Recently I have been going over Little Walters "JUKE" and felt like I was having trouble adding "feeling" into the famous opening riffs of the song. Hopefully I'll have the full song recorded soon, and put it on the site and you guys can tell me if I succeeded or suckedseeded.
Yep. And a well done solo takes you you, the audience and the other musicians on an emotional journey. Go to new places, do interesting things along the way, etc. Where you go, how you get there, what happens along the way and how you get back is different every time unless you're playing canned or tightly arranged stuff.
