Libertad
62 posts
Apr 06, 2012
2:59 PM
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I have just bought a low D Marine Band. I love the sound but I am getting a lot of rattle on the 1 draw. By careful playing I can eliminate it but I like to get a percussive groove going. I know the Thunderbirds have a special cover plate, does anyone have pictures of a solution for the MB? I have read about hammering a 'bump in' but would like to see how others have done it.
Any help would be appreciated.
Martin
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Tuckster
1013 posts
Apr 09, 2012
9:46 AM
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I have the same problem with my Low Eb MB. C'mon guys,any suggestions?
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chromaticblues
1208 posts
Apr 09, 2012
9:56 AM
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Take a magic marker and write on the inside of the draw coverplate where you think the reed is hitting. Put it back on and make the reed rattle a couple times. Take it apart and there should be a scratches in the marker. You can use anything round (ball bearing or a punch ground to a round end) to place on the scratch and give a light shot with a small hammer.
That should do it
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HarpNinja
2307 posts
Apr 09, 2012
9:57 AM
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Bend the coverplates so the bottom one looks like a Thunderbird coverplate.
You can use a tool - I think it is a sheet rock ripper? I don't remember the name...I have two of them and they are the same thing as people use to open up the cover plates.
You put tape on the cover plate and then bend the front lip at a angle. Looks just like a T Bird coverplate then.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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Tuckster
1014 posts
Apr 09, 2012
9:58 AM
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chromaticblues--Thank you!
Mike- I don't know what a Thunderbird looks like,but thanks anyway.
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2012 10:00 AM
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SlimHarpMick
2 posts
Apr 09, 2012
10:14 AM
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I seem to remember reading somewhere that customisers modify the covers on low MBs to stop this happening.
The thing is - and, someone correct me if I'm wrong - when MBs were designed, they didn't come in anything lower than a G, and even that rattles. So, other than doing what HarpNinja suggests, or something similar, I don't think there's any way round it. The reeds are a certain length, they have a certain amount of travel, and the bottom cover plate is a certain distance from them.
I don't own a Thunderbird, but I did own a Crossover (lost it at a jam) and I think it's designed with more clearance than the 1896 model, though I could be wrong.
EDIT: I presume this is why Big Rivers have such huge clearance, i.e. they were intended to be a replacement for MBs.
http://www.youtube.com/SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2012 10:26 AM
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HarpNinja
2308 posts
Apr 09, 2012
11:02 AM
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Just check Google images for a pic. The cover was designed off the same principle I described. I have some low tuned harps from Richard Sleigh and they are modified the same way.
By bending the angle of the front lip of the bottom cover plate, you are creating more space for the reed by making a deeper angle. Then, by decreasing the space in the back of the plate by the high reeds and increasing it towards the low reeds, you get more space.
The only rattle I ever get in harps down to LLF is on a custom LBb that was tuned down from C. This is because the only coverplate mod is the divet and not a cynlidrical cover. I have to play with a pretty hard attack, and I doubt it is ever audible live, but it can happen.
There are other ways to bed the cover, but that is how I do it (I swear it was called a sheet rock reamer or riper). I have electrical tape on it and then I put some on the coverplate as to not scratch it up.
Occassionally, I need to adjust where the holes lineup. In otherwords, form the plate first and THEN drill for screws via the coverplate.
Lots of times, I am lazy with my harps and just squish them back together with nails and they usually still lineup ok.
Another thing I do when converting to screws is use a 1/2" screw on the lower end to keep the coverplate from bending back up to it.
I will take pics tonight of some of my Sleigh's. I actually just switched out the composite comb on my LEb to a sealed pearwood MBD comb. Honestly, I use mostly TBirds and 1847's, so I don't have to mod the plates. I think my LE is stock parts minus screws for nails, and that might be a good comparison.
I have a LF# SP20 and several Low BR's. None of them rattle, but I don't like the darker tone.
I've been trying to setup a recording studio and get some recordings with low harps out, but time is not on my side. Neither is the know how. I am trying to learn it all on my own.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
820 posts
Apr 09, 2012
11:37 AM
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Yes, bend the coverplates back. It doesn't have to fit in the groove, before 1930 or so, they didn't even have them. You can take a small strip of micropore tape and put it a little above the reedslots about the place the coverplate will rest. The tape will keep your seal and do the job of the groove. Also bend it against a flat surface and try to keep the bend straight.
Find an old coverplate and try it with that first. I always screwed stuff up the first time, I imagine others sometimes to do.
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook
"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2012 11:39 AM
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HarpNinja
2309 posts
Apr 09, 2012
11:46 AM
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If you use a tool or corner of something, try to ensure you can run the whole plate along it. That will keep it straighter than bending just part of the plate.
I clamp down on the whole length and initially bend the low end of the plate so the gap between the front and sides is closed (this usually WIDENS the gap on the opposite end). Take a look at your MB and notices the side and now there is a cresent shaped gap from where the plate sits in the groove to where it extends back to the rest of the coverplate.
If you bend that and then reassemble, you can then use your fingers or a tape-protected O ring pliers to stretch the back of the cover plate wider. You can then push in the high end side of the coverplate with your fingers.
It will look just like a T Bird cover plate. If you end up creating a crooked lip to sit in the groove, you can usually use even just your fingers to try and straighten it. They usually sit in the groove even if you are a little off.
After doing a few, you'll find it easy to keep it perfectly straight and clean looking.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2012 11:47 AM
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arzajac
772 posts
Apr 09, 2012
12:33 PM
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MIke: I can imaging exactly what you mean to do to the coverplate by your description but I have no idea what you mean by a sheet rock ripper and how you would use (what I think a sheet rock ripper is) to open up a coverplate. I use a regular hammer covered with a few strips of masking tape along with a block of wood to do that.
Would you take a photo of the tool you are referring to as well, please?
Thanks.
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Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2012 12:34 PM
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HarpNinja
2311 posts
Apr 09, 2012
1:29 PM
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Hand Seamer. I knew it was some sort of seamer....I had to search forever for the name...dumb, I know.
https://www.google.com/search?q=hand+seamer&hl=en&safe=active&client=firefox-a&hs=8CM&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=Z0SDT-LCApPCgAejnNW3Bw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CFkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=564
Both mine are metal and 4" (or really close to 4"). One pair works great for SP20 plates and one works better for MB's. I usually just get them started and then hammer with a rubber mallet using a block of wood as a straight edge.
MB's usually turn out great, but I still screw up a SP20 cover every now and then. I have a ton extra, so it isn't a big deal.
I know you can just use a hammer or a vise, etc, but the reamers work well and quickly...but like I said, if I am opening cover plates, I only use it to get them started - then I hammer.
For working on Low MB's, either works just as well. Remember, though, it is easy to scuff stuff off, so I use electrical tape OR I coat the tool in rubber. I have some tool handle stuff that you can dunk it it and it coats it with rubber. On one pair, it was too hard to dunk both ends, so I just use tape.
I put tape on both the tool and coverplate. The less I try and use the reamer (and try using the mallet more) the less likely I am to put a little nick in the ridge of the cover plate.
I tried the divet method and found it looked messier and was more work than just using a reamer. I then hold the plate to the harp to see if the rattle is gone. It is cheaper to do this than to buy a T Bird, and being that most players use the low harps sparingly and for chording, it works out well (if you seal combs/convert to schools already).
If you are lazy, and have the older unsealed MB's, I would just bend the cover, use the nails to reassemble and play it until the comb is shot.
FWIW - the T Birds I have play as well as my custom low harps (made by others). I've never really kept any custom low harps I've built. I usually sell them.
FWIW 2 - I don't know how others do this. A long time ago Matthew Smart mentioned doing MB's like this and then I came across some cylindracil shaped covers after the fact. Before that, I didn't really work on harps that low, nor was I playing them. I mildly screwed up a coverplate in my first effort (it wasn't perfectly straight on the lip for the ridge). It isn't really hard to do at least a "good enough" job on.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2012 1:32 PM
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harpwrench
585 posts
Apr 10, 2012
2:59 PM
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How old are your Sleigh low harps Mike?
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Spiers Harmonicas
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HarpNinja
2321 posts
Apr 10, 2012
5:24 PM
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They are from 2005.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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opendoor_harps
22 posts
Apr 10, 2012
5:25 PM
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Great thread. I've been experimenting with some methods for doing this lately. I found this vise grips tool that is pretty versatile for mauling the cover plates:
http://www.irwin.com/tools/locking-tools/the-original-locking-sheet-metal-tools
I put some that green sticky back felt (like you would put on furniture feet to keep them from scratching the floor) on the blades so they don't scratch the harp covers.
This works well for imploding the flaps on the backs of Marine Band covers in one smooth move too.
To David P's comment: Have you found a solution for making a clean groove for a seal (instead of micropore tape) in the reed plate, particularly on plates that don't have one? (SP 20, LO, Delta Frost), etc. More thinking along the lines of when you take a recessed plate / plastic comb, and want to add a custom sealed comb with the cover plates now sitting on top of the reeds, but back a bit. (tin/ brass sandwich).
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HarpNinja
2322 posts
Apr 10, 2012
5:26 PM
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Lol, you can see a Korg tuner in the pics. I don't use that for tuning harps. I use it for tabbing out riffs by singing them. It is more forgiving than the Peterson I have.
***I just figured out how to use my cell phone camera! I didn't realize there were portrait and macro modes or that it doesn't automatically take the best quality pics. Sweet!
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
Last Edited by on Apr 10, 2012 5:28 PM
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opendoor_harps
23 posts
Apr 10, 2012
6:27 PM
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These pics are great Mike! Showing each side where its crimped and then open explains it perfectly. I thought that would have been a great endorsement for the Korg tuner though!
I was recently testing the new Hohner software tuner, but had to bail on it since its not bullet proof yet running in Virtual Machine mode on a Mac.
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HarpNinja
2323 posts
Apr 10, 2012
6:43 PM
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The Korg isn't worthless. It just has its limitations. It is nice to see an estimate of the actual cents.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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