rucker_z
13 posts
Apr 06, 2012
12:23 PM
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Hi all, I didn't see a search function for this forum, so forgive me if this question has been asked many times before:
I'm learning to bend. On a C harp, I can bend the 4 draw from a D down about a 3/4 tone, meaning, to somewhere between a Db and C. Is it possible to bend the 4-draw down a whole step all the way from D to C? And if so, I'm assuming if I just keep practicing consistently I will at some point learn to do this?
Thanks. ~rucker
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FreeWilly
152 posts
Apr 06, 2012
12:31 PM
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Well done rucker! (hope your not Dutch, where rukker means wancker.., but let's not lose focus here)
3/4 bend on 4D is fine. Consensus is that it will bend about that far. A warning is in place: the 4D is prone to break/flatten out of tune, if you try to bend it too far. Focus on getting that Db in pitch, and with expression, but don't ever bend it further than that if you want to enjoy that harp for as long as you can;)
Cheers!
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Lmbrjak
97 posts
Apr 06, 2012
7:19 PM
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You can go to youtube and type in Gblues + bendometer and see the bends available on a C harp. I blew out many 5 draw reeds before I learned that I was trying to bend something that wasn't available. Also, there is a forum search in that orange strip on the left near the bottom.
Last Edited by on Apr 06, 2012 7:21 PM
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rucker_z
14 posts
Apr 07, 2012
4:50 AM
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Thanks to you both for your replies.
Ah yes, I see the forum search link now.
No, I'm not Dutch, so I guess it's all good! ~rucker
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FolkRevival
3 posts
Apr 07, 2012
1:30 PM
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Yes but be careful of the 4D breaking out of tune if bent too far. FreeWilly knows whats up
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Folk Music Instruments
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MrVerylongusername
2313 posts
Apr 07, 2012
1:44 PM
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You'll kill the reed before you do. It just won't go that far and in the first three positions I can't see why you'd want to
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FolkRevival
4 posts
Apr 07, 2012
1:56 PM
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Yea that's true! So do be careful and like others have said there's not really a good reason to do that
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Folk Music Instruments
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arzajac
771 posts
Apr 07, 2012
9:14 PM
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Well, you're learning to bend and you want to know if you are doing it properly. Any bend on any hole, whether it's a draw bend or a blow bend can only bend the higher note down to about half a semitone above the lower note. So you will never be able to lower the pitch of the bent note to equal the lower note.
That's why there is no real draw bend on the 5 hole. The blow and draw notes are a semitone apart. Since you can only bend down to half a semitone above the lowest note of the two reeds, you can only take the 5 draw down less than a semitone (not even one note)
Since you are able to bend notes, the next step is for you to control the pitch. I strongly suggest you get an audio source and use your ears to practice matching the pitch.
For example, sit at a piano and play each note on the keyboard and then match it on the harmonica. Using a tool like the bendometer or a tuner may not be so helpful since the ultimate goal is to get the note you hear in your head out through the harp. If you rely on a visual tool like that, the pathway becomes longer in the long run.
Plus, the soulfulness of a blue third is not found in the number on a tuner but on how it sounds in the musical mix.
Welcome to the forum!
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Last Edited by on Apr 07, 2012 9:19 PM
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Gnarly
187 posts
Apr 07, 2012
11:55 PM
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I preach to anyone who will listen not to bend 5 draw down too much--I think we all have suffered too many busted 5 draw reeds.
However, on the CD that accompanies the Winslow Yerxa book Harmonica for Dummies, in several examples he clearly bends that note down to the same note found on the blow note.
It's creepy--
So obviously it can be done, and one assumes the same is true for 4 draw, but I ain't gonna do it!
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rucker_z
15 posts
Apr 08, 2012
8:51 AM
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I appreciate everyone weighing in and Arzajak thanks for the welcome. Yes, I'm just starting to sit down at the piano while I bend in order to learn how to get the pitch just where I want it.
Does the same cautionary advice not to bend the 4D too much also apply to the 3D or can that hole be bent more? I'm thinking there will be occasions when I'd like to bend that down to the minor 3rd or even the major 2nd. . .for instance while playing a tune in a minor key. Or would that mess up the reed as well? If so, would I just, say, play a minor blues in a different position altogether? Sorry if these are dumb questions.
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timeistight
523 posts
Apr 08, 2012
9:13 AM
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Arzajak's advice applies to every bend on the harp, so the third hole draw on a richter-tuned harp can safely bend down 3 semi-tones (which is still a semi-tone above the third blow).
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rucker_z
16 posts
Apr 08, 2012
9:38 AM
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^^Great, thanks. Got it now.
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hvyj
2312 posts
Apr 08, 2012
9:42 AM
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Draw 3 will bend to flat 3rd, major 2d and flat 2d in second position.
Draw 2 will bend to major 7th and flat 7th in second position.
Draw 1, draw 4 and draw 6 will bend a half step.
The measure of a competent harmonica player is the ability to hit all the three hole draw bends on pitch.
All bends will go down farther than the lowest target pitch, so if you slam the bend down as far as you can you will be flat. It is part of the blues idiom to occasionally play (in second position) the draw 2 whole step bend and/or the 4 draw half step bend a little flatter than concert pitch and to put a little quarter tone bend on draw 5, but not all the time. But flatter than flat does not mean as far down as the reed will go. The target concert pitch is ABOVE the farthest the reed will bend and flatter than concert pitch is also above the farthest the reed will bend.
For minor key blues, if you play in fifth position you have the minor third (D2, B3, B6, B9) built in without having to bend as well as minor 7th (D1, D4, D8) and minor 6th (B1, B4, B7, B10) which makes it easy to play minor key blues in fifth.
In third position, you have minor 3rd at D5, D9 but need to drop D2 a whole step to get it in the lower register. Minor 7th is at B1, B4, B7, B10. Minor 6th is only available by bending D3 a half step and you need to avoid D7 (major 6th), all of which makes playing minor blues in third position a little more complicated than playing in fifth.
BUT, in fifth draw 3 needs to be bent a half step to get flat 5th and a whole step to get the 4th.
If you play fourth position the entire natural minor scale is available without ANY bends, EXCEPT that root in the low register is 3 draw bent a whole step.
The moral of the story is that you need to develop control over the 3 bends available in the 3 hole draw in order to be able to play competently.
You are asking the right questions--not dumb at all.
Btw, for blow bends, blow 8 and blow 9 bend a half step. Blow 10 drops a half step and a whole step.
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rucker_z
17 posts
Apr 13, 2012
3:39 PM
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Thanks everyone for all the tips and advice.
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