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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Chromatic runs in improvisation
Chromatic runs in improvisation
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FreeWilly
147 posts
Apr 04, 2012
3:53 AM
Hey guys,

I've been practicing chromatic scales lately, and I've been wondering how they are used in improvisation/playing.

Is it true that chromatic scales fit into every chord as long as you start/end on a note that is part of that chord?

So for example, can I start (in third position) On the I chord by playing a 4D and then work my way up chromatically to the 7B, assuming I end the run while the band is on the IV chord? Or can you never really fit a full chromatic-run in blues, and must you jump some notes?

(I'm asking also because I'm trying to figure out the solo Jason Ricci plays on Broken Toy, in which he runs some fast runs. Instead of just copying it, I thought I'd practice fast chromatic runs first, so I can hear easier what he is doing, and have a more systematic practice, that I can use in improvisation too.

Btw, does anyone know what Key Broken Toy is in? Is it D major or D minor?)

Thanks in advance,
a struggling but devoted student of the blues.
Michael Rubin
486 posts
Apr 04, 2012
5:14 AM
As long as you're fast about it, you can play it anywhere. I think Toy is D minor but I haven't heard it in a while. It is my favorite Ricci song.

There is a great trick to playing the chromatic scale that would take me a while to explain, maybe I'll do it later today.
HarpKeyAl
18 posts
Apr 04, 2012
8:47 AM
@Michael Rubin: I'm very interested, please explain that trick!
Michael Rubin
487 posts
Apr 04, 2012
10:37 AM
In the C major scale,C D E F G A B C, E is the third note. E is 4 keyboard notes higher than C.
C C# D D# E
0 1 2 3 4

This distance of 4 keyboard notes is therefore named a major third. Any time you move 4 notes higher or lower it is called moving a major third in distance.

F is the 4th note of the C major scale and A is the 6th note in that scale. A is 4 keyboard notes higher than F, so A is a major third higher than F, even though neither of them are the third note in the C major scale.

D is the second note in the C major scale. If you go up 4 keyboard notes, you get F#. There is no F# in the C major scale. However, even while playing in the key of C, it is possible to play an F#. If you move from a D to an F#, that distance is called a major third.

In a C major chord, the notes are C E G. The distance from C to E is a major third. When the band is playing a C major chord, if begin on either C to E and move to E or C, respectively.

When people count music in 4/4 time, they will repeat 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4. These numbers are called downbeats.
Sometimes people will say 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and. The ands are called upbeats. When moving from C to E or E to C, begin on a downbeat. Play in straight 8th notes, meaning every and only every eighth note will get a played note. Play chromatically C C# D D# E or E D# D C# C. You will land on the next chord tone on a downbeat. If you play in 16th notes, you will also land on a chord tone on a downbeat.

If you took the third note from the C major scale, E, and lowered it one half step, it would become Eb. This is called the flat third or the minor third. Eb is three keyboard notes higher than C. Moving three keyboard notes is called moving a minor third in distance.

Chords are almost always formed by moving up major thirds or minor thirds. In the C major chord, C to E is a major third, E to G is a minor third.

A beat is the length of time from a downbeat including the upbeat until just before the next downbeat. Eighth note triplets is when you divide one beat into three equal parts. You say "1 and uh" but the word uh is not 50% of the way through the beat, it is now 33 1/3% of the way and the uh is 66.6% of the way.

If the band is playing a C major chord, begin playing either E or G on a downbeat and move to G or E, respectively. Play chromatically in eighth note triplets. You will land on the final chord tone on a downbeat.

Obviously, I am using a C chord as an example. If moving from any chord tone to another chord tone a major third away, use eighth notes or 16th notes. If moving from any chord tone to another a minor third away, use triplets.

It takes practice but when mastered sounds great.
FreeWilly
148 posts
Apr 04, 2012
10:55 AM
Thanks for that explanation. Your videos and other explanations are always a great help in thinking about music.

Do I understand this right if your major presumption is that one should always try to start and stop on a downbeat? Does this imply that if I want to move up a fifth (7 notes away), I cannot do this unless I zigzag?

Thanks again! I will have to listen for these jumps and in what rhythm they are played!
7LimitJI
643 posts
Apr 04, 2012
10:57 AM
@ Michael.
"It takes practice but when mastered sounds great."

Can you point to any examples of this being used as I'd like to hear it.
----------
The Pentatonics Reverbnation
Youtube

"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".

"It's music,not just complicated noise".

HarpNinja
2300 posts
Apr 04, 2012
11:20 AM
I use the chromatic scale starting on a scale tone of one chord and run it up to the scale tone of the next chord.

So over a blues in 2nd position, I might start on 4 blow over the IV chord and land on 6 blow as the song transitions to the I.

I think the chromatic scale in cross fits really well over the IV chord without sounding really "out".

I know Coltrane and Derek Trucks, amongst others use the principle of Michaels post to play arppeggios going up by half steps until the land back on in sounding chord tones.

Derek does that here as part of his solo...both at the beginning and middle and at the end. 3:25 is a great example.



It is technically tricky to do on diatonic like this. It always involves playing a lot of bends really fast an in tune...

I can't remember the actual phrase, lead tones maybe, but in studying some jazz theory and Miles Davis, I came across the idea of playing out as a way to play into a chord change. I do that a lot when playing blues.

When playing chromatic in third, I do the half-step arpeggio thing all the time, lol. I just want to rock like Derek!
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
HarpNinja
2301 posts
Apr 04, 2012
11:23 AM
I think Miles Davis does a chromatic run when going to the key change in So What...that might be easier to hear as it isn't so fast and frantic.

It isn't exactly what Michael is describing, but the same sort of idea.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
FreeWilly
150 posts
Apr 04, 2012
11:27 AM
Mike, in your example that would make for 8 notes on the IV chord, making it eighth notes?

Could you also play it in triplets starting on the 3d*, and starting on the second downbeat of the 6th bar?

Cool vid btw!

Last Edited by on Apr 04, 2012 11:28 AM
Michael Rubin
488 posts
Apr 04, 2012
12:07 PM
Free Willy, Yes, if you were in the key of C and the band went to the IV chord, F in the 6th bar, you could start on A on the second downbeat, play a triplet, A A# B then land on the chord tone C on the third downbeat.
Also, yes, I am always suggesting starting on a downbeat.

I do not have an example right now, but I will listen for one.
FreeWilly
151 posts
Apr 04, 2012
12:16 PM
I was referring to a run from 3d (single bend) to 6B in triplets, covering 3/4 of the 6th bar. But I can deduce form this answer that that would also be viable. Thanks! And thanks for clarifying the downbeat thing.

I'd like to hear more examples too btw. Or perhaps there's even someone that can explain what Jason is doing on broken toy ;) But that might be asking too much...

Sure love this forum. There's some very specific things you are wondering about, and in less than a day you get input/inspiration/ideas. Thanks guys!


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