Jehosaphat
208 posts
Mar 29, 2012
7:03 PM
|
First i'd like to qualify where i'm coming from with regard to OOTB harps.
I am usually forgiving of their perceived defects in that they are(were) designed to play melodies in First position.It has to be an absolute shocker of a harp that won't handle campfire songs resonably well.
Its when people like us decided to play Blues/Jazz on them with the requirement to bends notes that those deficencies if present became prominent.Ie poor air tightness lousy gapping etc.
So anyways after good reviews I treated myself to a new Manji expecting it to be as close to excellent as can be out of the box.
Not good,breathy ,tight in the wrong way etc ..so off with the lid and the problem was so obvious that i don't know how it got through Q/C.
In holes 1 2 and 3(draw) the reed was sitting about 1.5 Mil above the plate ,draw 5 nearly as much.Pretty bad.
Blow 10 had no gap at all.
Ok the fix was relatively easy as i am used to gapping reeds but a newbie would of had a lot of problems trying to learn on it.
But: once gapped i like this Harp a lot and would maybe buy another.
Just a bit surprised that a company with such a good rep can still let these things through occassionally .
|
Patrick Barker
442 posts
Mar 29, 2012
8:51 PM
|
I've noticed the same thing with the Manjis I've had- it really weirds me out because I see so many great reviews of these harps, but I can't say the same about my Manjis until I did a little work on them. The ones I bought weren't even in tune ootb. I'm thinking about getting more just to see if I happened to get a couple of duds or something. Additionally, I've been getting into overdraws recently and I keep hearing that Manjis can do it but mine really suck at it. Admittedly, I may have messed up otherwise good overdraw gapping when I fixed mine up (without overdraws in mind at the time). I hope to get more just to see if my playing was different when I first got them; perhaps now I'd like them ootb.
|
jbone
849 posts
Mar 29, 2012
9:42 PM
|
i have NOT noticed that. my manjis- all SIX of them- i have had for at least a year and more like 2 for some of them. for the most part they have been some of the best ootb harps i've ever bought.
the thing about harps and people is, of course whoever is building a harp can have a bad day. and as players we're all a bit different. considering some of the total crap i've made work at least for a while, and holding the manji up to most ootb harps i've bought, the manji is a winner hands down.
but each their own.
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
|
didjcripey
218 posts
Mar 29, 2012
9:46 PM
|
Love the Manji's. Next to Lee Oskars, my second preference, they are louder, brighter, require less breath to play and bend easier. Perhaps quality control issues are creeping in, as lately I have had a couple that were a bit tight and sticky. Also not really an overblower, but find them just as hard to overblow as my Lee Oskars
----------
Lucky Lester
|
Libertad
56 posts
Mar 30, 2012
12:36 AM
|
I have recently had a similar problem. I bought a Manji and holes 2 and 3 on the blow reeds were gapped massively at least 1.5mm. As you say an easy job, but I was expecting better. On the other hand I bought a Big Six which was perfect..... its made me consider an 1847.......... Stop me!
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2012 12:36 AM
|
The Gloth
645 posts
Mar 30, 2012
7:47 AM
|
to stop you ? naaah, go for it !
I'm thinking about a 1847 too, half-valved with PT Gazell's method.
|
bonedog569
498 posts
Mar 30, 2012
10:43 AM
|
The 1847 is another class of instrument. My manjis have been reliable and very good ootb harps - but switching to an 1847 feels like going from a Camry (which I drive) to a Mercedes (which I cant afford)
I talked with Jason about them - and for him they feel too big and slow him down. He likens the customized mb is a sports car, the Seidel a land yacht. I'm not surprised he likes the Maji a lot.
I will be slowly adding more 1847s to the harp case. They suit my style and speed just fine- and unlike my real ride - I feel like I've steeped up to 'luxury' class when I play them.
----------
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2012 10:45 AM
|
Fingers
158 posts
Mar 30, 2012
11:08 AM
|
I am in the 1847 club! All perfect ootb, i even put a new set of 1847 plates in a soloist pro straight from the packet....also perfect! I find the Manji stiff to bend also.
|
Tuckster
1005 posts
Mar 30, 2012
12:26 PM
|
I also put 1847 plates on a Solist Pro. I wasn't so lucky. Really plays poorly,although a mere gapping is probably all it needs.
Have 3 Manjis A,C,F The A could use a gapping on 2&3 to make them more playable,but I play it stock. C & F i play untampered.Good harps,not wild about the tuning,but I understand Suzuki has changed the tuning since I bought them in 2010.
I think it's a rare luck of the draw to get a well gapped OOTB from any manufacturer. That and everyone's preference is different.
|
mandowhacker
111 posts
Mar 30, 2012
5:13 PM
|
I've had tow Manjis, one I sold and the other will be for sale next week. (Watch the for sale thread, it's a C).
I've got a half dozen customized harps by several different people.
I'm going with dead stock 1847 Silvers. The ones I have do everything I know how to do with ease. The only problem I've had to date with 1847's is that my Noble squeeks on the 7 draw. It's under warranty--I just need to send it back.
----------
Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
|
jim
1225 posts
Mar 30, 2012
5:55 PM
|
Manjis are good. Like all Suzukis, they have big time problems with overbend squeal OOTB, but who'll care for OB plaing on stock hamronicas anyway...
What I really hate about them is the thin covers. The "Olive" model fixes that, and I'm waiting for its launch.
----------
Free Harp Learning Center
|
ElkRiverHarmonicas
768 posts
Mar 30, 2012
6:33 PM
|
Harmonicas are like sex. Whatever way you can think of making it, somebody is really into it and there's not always a good reason why.
You just have to try a little bit of everything to find out what works for you.
----------
David
Elk River Harmonicas
Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook
"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2012 6:34 PM
|
Sarge
145 posts
Mar 30, 2012
6:57 PM
|
Hey Dave, those optimized JI tuned solist pros you did for me are some of the best I've played. Much better than a manji
----------
Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
|
JInx
186 posts
Mar 30, 2012
7:23 PM
|
never tried a manji, but a did try a valved promaster in c, and i'll say that the lee oskar blows it out of the water
|
opendoor_harps
12 posts
Mar 30, 2012
10:20 PM
|
Great thread guys.
Timely to some comparisons I've been doing recently between various C's that I have used over the years- in order of favorites: a C Manji, C Golden Melody (a newer one with a upgraded comb and some reedwork), a older "semi" custom C Lee Oskar (wood comb, re gapped, no embossing), a Pre War MB C in JI tuning, and just for the sake of it, an Older Hicksville Old Standby and Marine Band.
They all have their tonal appeals, but the Manji wins out of the box in terms of tightness, and response. Its what I gig with and has been good from the get go.
I just got my first Olive and I'm not sure yet what to make of it. Its a G and I thought it would be as bright and responsive as a Manji, since they share the same reed plates. But not so. The Promaster style cover plates make for a warmer, more closed down tone, which is nice, but I think it needs some more work to make it sing.
I have a couple half valved Pro masters in Paddy tuning, and regarding JInx comment about preferring a Lee Oskar, I find I have to approach playing the valved harps differently than the way I can just wail into a Lee Oskar.
I am looking forward to taking the jump into an 1847 soon. Curious if anyone has directly compared the Olive and the 1847.
Cheers
|
Patrick Barker
443 posts
Mar 31, 2012
12:28 AM
|
Good to know I'm not alone in my gripe with the Manjis. Have any of you 1847 lovers ever had any issues adjusting to the slight difference in hole spacing?
Last Edited by on Mar 31, 2012 12:29 AM
|
harmonicanick
1522 posts
Mar 31, 2012
12:53 AM
|
@open_door harps
C Golden Melody (a newer one with a upgraded comb and some reedwork),
How do you order or know if you have a 'newer' GM please?
|
jim
1226 posts
Mar 31, 2012
4:55 AM
|
@Patrick:
yeah, in fact it's vice versa - I have a small issue playing smaller hole spacing oh H's and Suzukis
|
SweetLips
12 posts
Mar 31, 2012
6:22 AM
|
I have had no issues with my manjis OOB. @jim the Olive's are available (in the states at least) on a few sites - rocking rons has em in A,C, G and a few others. The comb/reedplate/reeds are manji's with new covers similar to the pro cover plate - much better. Not only is the cover less apt to bend/squish but the Olive's cover plates cover more of the exposed reedplate. I hate how the manjis reed plates stick out beyond the covers and create a sort of ridge - like a golden melody. Bites mustache hairs, digs in to my lips and just "feels" weird when tongue blocking. The Olive's IMO, solve that nicely. I'm not keen on playing $60 harps (SP20's are my standard choice) but all the keys I have bought have been great OOB and so far have kept up well under my ham fist and heavy playing
|
atty1chgo
283 posts
Mar 31, 2012
6:48 AM
|
Is there any info available on tweaking OOTB Manjis for someone who isn't a technician, or should we leave well enough alone?
@ Jlnx - Every time I see someone with a box of Lee Oskars I cringe. Can't understand the fascination with those cheaply made harps. I have found that the replacement reed plates on Manjis are very high quality. I have a Lee Oskar that needs new plates (went out of tune and broke a reed in less than 30 days). Is it even worth fixing? I hate to throw good money after bad.
|
harpdude61
1339 posts
Mar 31, 2012
10:33 AM
|
harmonicanick
The newer GMs should be in a blister pack. I have found these to be more in tune and playable than the older ones that are not.
|
hvyj
2287 posts
Mar 31, 2012
10:34 AM
|
Personally, I don't like LOs, but they are NOT cheaply made. Generally speaking, they've got very decent compression and are usually very durable. But, I think Suzukis have even better compression and are even more durable (I LOVE Suzukis).
I don't want to sound disrespectful, but if a player is blowing out LOs and breaking reeds on LOs, I would suspect that embouchure and breath technique of the player may have more to do with it than the instrument. I can understand why some players don't like them, but LOs are certainly NOT poorly made harmonicas.
|
groyster1
1833 posts
Mar 31, 2012
11:03 AM
|
@hvyj
agree they are well made and VERY durable...I own 4 dont really like their sound but they last and last
|
Fingers
160 posts
Mar 31, 2012
11:17 AM
|
@ Patrick i find the hole spaceing on the 1847 preferable to any other harp i have played.
|
atty1chgo
284 posts
Mar 31, 2012
12:57 PM
|
@hvyj - I will look into the embrochure and breath techniques, I'm sure that I need to refine them.
But let's look at what you have said logically. If, for purposes of argument, if because of poor embrochure and breathing techniques I am blowing out a Lee Oskar harmonica QUICKLY (and NOT a Special 20 or a Manji or a Marine Band, of which I have plenty of and use much more frequently) that tells me that the LO is the least durable of them all, because the other mentioned brands are not doing this. My poor technique would be applied across the board equally, and the strong survive. Also, one of the reeds went so flat it was sick to listen to, as well as the cover is very soft and easily dented. I also do not like the spacing between holes. Just my two cents.
Then again, maybe I just got a bad one. It can happen to anyone. I'll get another one soon and see how it holds up.
Last Edited by on Mar 31, 2012 1:01 PM
|
robbert
68 posts
Mar 31, 2012
2:18 PM
|
I used LOs and Sp. 20s for several years and was very satisfied with the sound and durability of both. I also did not mind BRs. Decided in the last couple of years to upscale my playing by trying higher end harps mostly in quest of responsiveness, and the potential of more easily getting those elusive obs(gapping!I know). This strategy,including a custom or two, has really taught me breathe control. You have to have good breath control to play these better harps. They are much more airtight. Better breath control leads to more control in general over bends, runs, tone, subtlety...and doesn't seem to affect volume all that much.
I've tried Manjis, and in spite of all the incredible endorsement they get from players I admire, at this point, I seem to prefer the Crossover. I've also tried Session Steel, and still prefer Crossover. I'm not particularly loyal to any harmonica manufacturer either, I just like the responsiveness, and sound of the Crossover. The other harps are also very good, though. I wouldn't have a problem playing them.
|
harmonicanick
1523 posts
Mar 31, 2012
2:29 PM
|
thanks harpdude61
|
hvyj
2288 posts
Mar 31, 2012
3:18 PM
|
@atty1chgo: I dunno...I bought a set of LOs when they first came out in the '80s and used them heavily for a year or two. They held up fine--much more durable than the Hohners I had been playing. I still have the LOs and they are still going strong although i have not played them regularly for a long time. i don't like their tone and timbre, but they are very responsive and fun to play (I don't OB).
Suzukis are incredibly durable. Historically Hohners have NOT been--but the newer Hohners might have improved--I'm not sure. I've never had to replace a LO or a Suzuki. When i used to play Hohners I'd be replacing harps regularly.
Last Edited by on Mar 31, 2012 3:20 PM
|
ElkRiverHarmonicas
773 posts
Mar 31, 2012
4:48 PM
|
Atty1chgo,
It's not just the strong that survive, so do the leaky.
----------
David
Elk River Harmonicas
Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook
"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard
"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
|
opendoor_harps
14 posts
Mar 31, 2012
6:19 PM
|
@harmonicanick/
The GM is a new set of reed plates that came on a factory comb/ direct from Hohner. The old one I know is "old" because I still have it alive and kicking. I bought it around 1974! Its my crash test dummy.
@atty1chgo:
Regarding the Lee Oksars. I have several folks who have brought me blown out Lee Oskars and I usually find its the often the same note (4 draw) which makes me suspect playing technique on that hole. I still have quite a few LO's from over the years, but starting to sell them off. The only one that gets much gig time is a tweaked D that I don't have to work too hard on and can play pretty hard in a rack. I also have some minor tuned and melody makers which are nice for certain tunes.
I have accumulated quite a few used reed plates and LO parts and have replaced single reeds for one player as he needs them.
Feel free to contact me off list if you don't feel like buying a whole new reed plate.
I also agree with the comment about the Crossover above. Compares a bit better than the Manji I think but I don't have a direct key match.
Still, I fear once I cross over to trying a Seydel I don't know what the future holds.
|
walterharp
848 posts
Mar 31, 2012
6:48 PM
|
@elkriver
ok that cracked me up!
short of buying a half dozen of every harp from every key of every type, a few times a year, not sure now anybody can say one is more reliable or qa/qc is better than another.. yes, if they really suck eventually the complaints will build up, but most of these harps that are being talked about here are pretty good most of the time for most people.
|
atty1chgo
286 posts
Apr 01, 2012
6:40 AM
|
@opendoor_harps - I'll check the harp when I get home this PM and see which reeds are the culprits.
In fact, what I will do is look at my half dozen or so broken down harps (as well as the replaced plates on the Manjis) to see if there is a pattern, and report my findings here. If so, I would love some advice to correct it. That could necessitate another subject string, rather than take this one over from the original subject. Thanks for the advice.
Last Edited by on Apr 01, 2012 6:40 AM
|
opendoor_harps
16 posts
Apr 01, 2012
3:00 PM
|
@atty choo.
Keep me posted. In two cases w/ players with LO blown out reeds across multiple harps, there was a pattern. Starting a separate LO thread makes sense.
@Zadozica.
I feel sort of the same way about the LO's, even more so after playing a Manji (back to original thread :)
I would describe it as more work to get what I want out of the LO's. I've been trying to work on a few of my old ones to see if I can tweak the response a bit.
|
sonny3
1 post
Apr 02, 2012
4:26 PM
|
Recently bought a Manji in the key of D.almost unplayable on holes 2 and 3 ootb.Guess i'll stick with marine bands as i have never had a bad one ootb
|
