This guy nails the recording on just about every level--and he's helped a lot by two guitarists who seemingly replicate every last drop of the original two-guitar soundtrack. The harp player's tone is spot-on. If anybody knows him, ask him what mic and amp he's using. This is IT. He's playing extremely relaxed and swinging hard; he never pushes it, but that in itself makes this an unusual accomplishment
I'm not surprised that the video hails from California. Lord knows they've got the retro sound down cold.
EDITED TO ADD: My bad! The band hails from Norway!
Watch this video all the way through. Yes, there are a couple of spots where I believe he misses a note or two. I certainly ain't complaining.
The Elgins (Mark Mumea - guitar, Mark Bukich - harp, Bob Newham - drums) are from California, used to be the LA Dukes.
Their CD "Back to Chicago" is well worth a listen for those interested in a lovingly made tribute to 50's style Chicago blues..."Aw Baby" & "Sad Hours" are particular highlights on the album. CD production is a little lo-fi (but better than a lot of attempts at "old sounding recording"), but the playing is undoubtedly great. There are loads of old amps featured in their facebook photos, but the National Tremotone (an amp that is garnering a lot of interest in the vintage harp amp world, especially since Bharath's interest in it) is featured with Bukich fairly often in pics & on youtube. ---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
The trouble with covering "Juke" is that it's much more than just a succession of notes in a certain order, it's a LANDMARK track, a totally 'ingrained in the mind' sonic event (or should be for any blues harp player/blues fan) - the timing issues, the "high end" tone on the 3 & 6 octaves in the intro (...are they the 6 & 9 octave, are they a sonic artefact of the amp, or studio delay?) the delay on the cymbals just off "tripping over" itself...the harp tone that LW never seemed to recreate after, or before, that session (not that I suspect he ever tried) ...it's a bit like saying, "Here's MY version of the Mona Lisa!"...there's really only one & only ever going to be (the alt. take is a significantly different tune, even Walter's own later attempts pale into insignificance) and anything that is perceptibly different...just ain't it. You can only really ever set yourself up for a fall & aim to fall soft & have fun doing it...like those guys in "birdman" events, who everyone knows will never really take to the skies & fly ;-)
That said, I just can't help enjoying an earnest, well played attempt (like Alberto's). Paul Oscher's one man, rack version, is well worth catching...& here's the Elgins (Bukich, Mumea) again...
I don't think covers, of Juke or any other numbers, are pointless, worthless or un-enjoyable...far from it - I get a kick out of worthy attempts...I just think that it is such an iconic tune/moment in time/musical event that such attempts benefit from consideration within the bounds of realistic expectation.
---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Mar 23, 2012 11:00 AM
That amped tone on the first vid is real nice, sounds just like LW's recording. Okay, this thread has convinced me that I must try to learn this tune. I've fooled with the first 12 (or 12 1/2 I guess?) bars for a while now, but never took the time to learn the rest. Where can I get a tab for Juke and some sort of backing track thats close enough to work?
Last Edited by on Mar 23, 2012 7:43 AM
I have to agree with tmf714. Without wanting to sound harsh. It's good, but it lacks the emotional intensity that is in the original and doesn't have any of the same sense of urgency to it. The guy certainly has most of the notes down cold as do the guitarists, but as you well know Adam that's only half the story when it comes to performing a straight cover version. Even though I think that this guy has very good tone indeed. I certainly don't think the amped tone is anything like Little Walters recorded tone on "Juke" especially in the first clip. If I were just passing a bar and heard it, it wouldn't grab me enough to think hey I MUST check this out. By the same token if I were already in a bar and he played it I wouldn't be in a rush to leave. It was nice, but that's as far as it goes. I certainly think that Mark Burness (5F6H) makes some excellent, perfectly valid points about "Juke".
5F6H: You're right about the band but wrong about the harp player. I'm right. Please check the video description.
To the rest of you: Whew! You've missed my point. Please take a look at the thread title: I'm evaluating this player as a student, not as a pro. There's absolutely nothing original here, and as Kingley notes, the energy is somewhat down from the original--although not quite as much as Kingley seems to feel. LW's original is NOT a high energy recording for many of its choruses; the energy rises and falls. "Back Track" is much more energetic.
If we're talking about copying an extremely well known harmonica instrumental and playing it in context--not a big stage show, where more intensity would have been called for, but a restaurant gig--then I give this guy an A by any measure. I don't give him an A+.
In the past I've started this kind of thread in order to complain that some players seem to think that just replicating a well-known solo is good enough. This time around I thought I'd wear the other shoe and say, "Nice job!" to somebody who proves to me that they're an excellent student of the instrument.
If y'all want to dispute and niggle and insist that the tone here isn't EXACTLY Little Walter's tone, or that his energy isn't QUITE as intense as LW's on the original recording, be my guest. Ever see cats fighting in a paper bag? It's quite a sight. Rather than participate in that, I'm happy to back off.
The larger point, which I might have made the first time around but didn't, is that to copy a solo in this manner, whether one achieves 94% perfection of 99% perfection, is a student's exercise and, to some extent, a measure of professional competence, and to that extent it's a solid achievement, but it's no more than the first step towards achieving an original voice. So I'd never make a fetish of a copyist--and I certainly didn't intend to do that here. But I think he does an excellent job, for all that. He grooves beautifully with the two guitarists. I personally like to swing it harder than this, but I think this laid-back swing works well.
@tmf: I could say, "Yes, this harp player does indeed own it--and has earned the right to his middle name"--but then you and I would be engaging in playground back-and-forth ("Did so!" "Did not!") and I'm sure you'll agree with me that we're better than that.
If it's modernized versions of the song we're after, of course, I far prefer Billy Branch's "Son of Juke."
Last Edited by on Mar 23, 2012 8:46 AM
"LW's original is NOT a high energy recording for many of its choruses; the energy rises and falls. "Back Track" is much more energetic."
Kudzu - I never mentioned energy though. I said "it lacks the emotional intensity that is in the original and doesn't have any of the same sense of urgency to it." That's a completely different thing to "high energy". I'm referring to the nuances involved in shaping the notes and the emphasis on certain parts within phrases to accentuate the feel. Little Walter tunes like "Roller Coaster", "Rocker" or "Backtrack" do have high energy. They are nothing like the feel of "Juke" except of course having the common factor that they were played by Little Walter and are instrumentals.
theres a local stellar harp player who said he has not mastered juke IMHO little walters harp is very difficult to master maybe because he played so many notes-I can only the repetitive first 8 riffs
@ Kudzurunner "5F6H: You're right about the band but wrong about the harp player. I'm right. Please check the video description."
The "Elgins" harp player is Mark "the Harp" Bukich, he plays on the Elgins CD "Back to Chicago" (along with Norwegians Fredrik Marken & Øyvind Stølefjell) and was in the LA Dukes with Mumea & Newham, Johhny Dyer's backing band. You might "think" you are right...
The guy in the 1st video is a different guy to the Elgins regular harp player (but the guy in the video is definitely himself and "the guy in the video" - Alberto Vigliarolo of Italy with/formerly with The Lowdown Fellows) maybe sitting in? Maybe hooks up for EU gigs? Ask Mark Mumea, he's a friend of yours on Facebook?
"Please take a look at the thread title: I'm evaluating this player as a student, not as a pro." Wow, what's the basis for your distinction? Seems somewhat uncharitable of you to draw everyone's attention to this guy for his excellent pro-like playing, then deny him that status? :-I
---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Mar 23, 2012 9:36 AM
Jerry Portnoy is currently dissecting Juke one phrase at a time on his Sonic Junction educational site.
His way of slowing it down and giving it in bite size pieces is the most effective way I've seen to learn this song inside and out.
Sonic Junction is a subscription educational site that also offers other blues players as teachers on their respective instruments. ---------- The Iceman
Sorry Adam, but you're too easy on this. One: it's too slow. Two: I only listened to the first 15 seconds, but this, like so many other note-for-note covers of juke, totally lacks the most important elements of the tune. Is it a good cover? Yes, it is. Is it noteworthy? I say no, because it lacks the " bounce" of the original. You can, as always, hear the performer thinking about what comes next instead of just playing the thing. He also glosses over licks. I've listened to Juke too many times to be impressed by this one.
There's no doubt this guy can play the harp, or that it's one of the "better" versions of Juke you're going to hear. It's just not special. It's like somebody took a perfect cube of wood and sanded the edges off. Sure, it's still a cube, but not like it was. ---------- 12gagedan's YouTube Channel
Estrin's version bounces better, but he misses just as much. I didn't get past the intro. Maybe I should qualify my posts. . . Dear list, I have some OCD. I've listened to this track so many times, it's beyond reason. I am also known for my ability to observe the world around me ( that's why I'm a scientist). I have never even attempted this tune live. Why, because I know EXACTLY how it goes, and it won't ever be right. I'd rather do an original instrumental; one that will also be impossible to reproduce. It's not that I dislike the idea of it, or that I would ever discount the skill shown in these vids. It's just that I can't help but keep score against the track in my head. I'd rather enjoy a good harp player's own soul than hear them try to find Walter's and miss. ---------- 12gagedan's YouTube Channel
Have to agree. It is too slow and lackluster in energy. That guy Bharath probably does a better LW impersonation note for note. Estrin on the other hand can play anything and do it justice but there's also always some Rick Estrin in it. I think that's the way it should be. For the same reason I like comedians who make up their own jokes rather than impersonators who just sound like someone else. ---------- /Greg
Funnily enough, I just got to see these guys open for Jason Ricci's gig at the Maui Sugar Saloon on monday- they were great! Only played very traditional Muddy Waters and Little Walter type stuff, but they were very good at what they did.
I would reiterate my point about "realistic expectation" again here. Alberto's (the first clip) has a very authentic amp sound, not LW's sound but closer to ball park than the others here (& closer than Jerry would do - I love Jerry Portnoy, he always sounds immediately recogniseable as himself...as does Rick - neither Rick nor Jerry have anything to prove on that front, their famous for being themselves).
The big factor is that it's an effing Youtube clip! Shot (fairly well) on location, one mic capturing the the whole band, we don't know if Alberto played this with the intention of being recorded or not...it's the equivalent of "singing in the shower". It's not a serious studio attempt to "nail Juke", it's a bit of fun given away for free, unlike Flavio's studio attempt which is played well & captures elements of the original, like the delay, but falls short on the harp tone (too "beefy", too gainy).
You're all discussing it like it's some sort of official submission in an imaginary contest. This isn't the case. You're not being realistic, or fair to the player concerned...who has a cracking sound & feel, a very ball park vibe.
Given the circumstances that the video was shot in, I don't believe anyone in this thread could do a better job...no one has yet posted a clip of anyone else doing a *better* job (different, with their own merits, no better). I know that I couldn't do it without an awful lot of woodshedding. If you think otherwise, then shoot & load up the videos & back up all the talk...;-) Enough of this, I know a bloke who knows a bloke, who could probably do better...yeah, yeah - My mate fat Barry down the pub knows a bloke, who knows a bloke, who knocked out Chuck Norris! The bloke who used to work in our print room was the back up astronaut to take Neil Armstrong's place in the moon landings :-)
Roll on "American Blues Harp Idol"...:-I ---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Mar 24, 2012 1:52 AM
"You're all discussing it like it's some sort of official submission in an imaginary contest. This isn't the case. You're not being realistic, or fair to the player concerned...who has a cracking sound & feel, a very ball park vibe. "
5F6H - Yes Mark that's true, but when the thread starts with a comment from Adam like "This guy nails the recording on just about every level--and he's helped a lot by two guitarists who seemingly replicate every last drop of the original two-guitar soundtrack. The harp player's tone is spot-on. If anybody knows him, ask him what mic and amp he's using. This is IT." What do you honestly expect?
Now if he'd have said something like " I think this guy does a good version of Juke and has a good amped tone. What do you think?" I suspect the replies would have been very different.
"Roll on "American Blues Harp Idol"...:-I"
Hahaha! I can just picture it now with Bob Dylan, Alanis Morrisette and Graham Norton as the judges.
@ Kingley - "Yes Mark that's true, but when the thread starts with a comment from Adam like "This guy nails the recording on just about every level..... This is IT." What do you honestly expect?"
To be honest...I expect exactly this scenario! ;-) I suspect that's why he ("the agitator") does it. :-)
I thought any of those versions were quite good. I wouldn't have walked out of the bar, if I saw and heard someone playing like any of those versions. I would order another drink and stick around.
Everyone is a critic. This is the reason why I never play Little Walter songs. They are too familiar and the harp nerds dissect them to the nth degree.
little walter copped a load of the riffs of juke off of 40`s jazz horn players,the opening riff was one of Charlie Parkers...so assimilation is what blues is all about...
Alberto's Juke is pretty dam close to most versions I have ever heard. He's got great tone. I'm sure if he played at a larger venue, not as kicked back as a restaurant where people are eating not dancing, he would put some more energy into it. You play for the audience and the occasion.
Lastly, Juke is Juke. It's a great tune..I don't care who plays or how they play it. It's always interesting and entertaining.
I have to agree with those that think Alberto's version (from Kudzu's original post) is very, very good. It is a bit slow at parts, it starts out at a good tempo and slows down, probably due to the guitarists varying tempo and the fact that it's a laid, back sit-down kind of performance. The amp tone and his mastery of the subtle little licks is pretty impressive, guys, even on a lo-fi you tube clip. To dismiss it so swiftly seems a bit defensive to me. The second guy from 5F6H is good, but not in the same league. He misses some key notes, but it's still good. Estrin makes it his own, he knows all the licks and subtleties and sounds like Lester Young, swingin' it! By far the best! The Flavio guy is awesome, he is obviously an amazing harp player (does he play jazz or rock type stuff?) and is not trying to carbon copy LW...he doesn't swing as much to me, though, everything is dead on the beat and very clean...perhaps that's his stye and the fact that he is playing in a sterile studio to perhaps a click track may be the reason. My two cents! I enjoy performances of Juke...
I have to say that for an unaccompanied version that this guy has done a damned good job of playing this. He should be proud of it to my mind. Not only that he also did the alternative version too. First video is the popular version. Second video is the "alternative take" version.
Maybe its just me but I think all the videos here are worthy of some merit. I mean honestly if one was to cover juke I think these guys all nail a successful cover.
The solo videos at the end impress me the most though.
I challenged myself to learn juke and all I can do is play me playing juke. Really all I ever wanted to do. I get the head of it but the rest is more improvisational. I can do it well enough for a jam but not nearly as well as these guys
Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2012 6:59 AM
"He says that even LW never played Juke the same way twice."
I doubt that many players that perform their own material play it the same way all the time. Just imagine if you had a career that lasted forty years. Playing all you own material exactly the same way every time would get extremely boring, from a performers perspective.
Yeah as mentioned in so many threads most of the old blues guys play based on how the groove takes them. It's not about notes and playing the same it's about what's right that song that particular time.
So while there may be a signature lick or riff or general vibe. The songs aren't always static.
Ps the alternate juke cut from the box set is one of my top couple songs for harmonica.
"Speaking of performing the song the same way twice,has anybody heard magic dick do a different version of whammer jammer?"
Yes. At one of Hummel's "BlowOffs" a few years back, MD and Lee Oskar did a wild version together during the setup and sound check. Not a performance version, but as an impromptu throwdown, it was very cool.
Lor, guitar players love the key of E. I think the guitar has its most open resonance with the E chord, I say that as a purely rhythm guitar player, some lead guys might have an idea why guitar players like to play lead on it. On the harmonica, E and F really ring out for me, because my internal resonance is right on those keys. I have more control of tone, pitch, everything in those keys. When I started playing, I was a little kid and my resonant key was D. You couldn't get me off a D harp. By the time I was 15, C became that resonant key for me and by the time I was in college, it had gone down to A. But guitar players really love to play in E.
Also,
I usually don't chime in on these threads, but Joe_L said something that I thought was brilliant:
"Everyone is a critic. This is the reason why I never play Little Walter songs. They are too familiar and the harp nerds dissect them to the nth degree."
If I wanted to hear Little Walter, I would listen to... Little Walter. I think way too many people are chasing after Little Walter and trying to sound just like him when people need to be sounding like themselves. Now, I mean it's cool if you wanted to maybe take one of his songs and copy it and play it on stage somewhere as part of a set or something. I, like Joe_L, would hang around and listen to it live. But the real issue here is people spend way too much time trying to sound like other people when they should be trying to sound like themselves. That's my 10 cents.
lor- there was a pretty good discussion about different keys having different "feels" a few(?) months ago. You might want to do a forum search and check it out.
"Everyone is a critic. This is the reason why I never play Little Walter songs. They are too familiar and the harp nerds dissect them to the nth degree."
I feel that above comment is a lame cop out and total BS...
Folks don't play Little Walter songs because (they can't play Little Walter songs!)
IF...one could "actually" play Little Walter songs, they could careless if others dissected them...
BTW...Who gives a rats ass if some NERD is dissectin what you played. What you should be worried about is Kim Wilson or Dennis Gruenling or Rick Estrin being able to hear it with out laughing in your face!
Gimme a break - players don't play Little Walter songs BECAUSE they CAN't or when they do... they are so terrible at playing them and are EMBARRASSED of themselves as a player!!!
Fess up Boys - If you just ain't got what it takes to play Little Walter, don't be giving these (BULLSHIT EXCUSES) and passin it off like it's wisdom...
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2012 5:49 AM
I think there are perfectly legitimate reasons to choose to play "Juke" note for note in a public performance or to choose NOT to play it. No denying it is worth studying to either some or to full extent as a student of the harp, though, so I personally find it interesting to hear versions. But when even an Estrin performance gets dissected here, I think there's some weight to the argument that no one will be happy if it aint LW. As for the Hummel multiple position thing, I believe he tabs/breaks down the OPENING 12 bars of Juke and plays the head, and the notes over the I IV V changes in three positions. Its a great exercise to learn 12 bar blues in three positions. He does not play the whole song, at least in the video I have seen. I think it would be virtually impossible to duplicate Juke after the first 12 bars in a position other than 2nd because you would have to sacrifice somewhere to get some of the ornaments and subtle things that make this song so appealing/amazing to everyone...so if it exists I'd like to see it!
Answering questions with a personal attack is always a good way to get your point across. I did not attack you in any way. I take it that your consensus is if somebody doesnt play like Little Walter, they are a shitty player. Now I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I don't even care if you think I'm a shitty player or not., but I would like to now why sounding like someone else should be the pinnacle of playint. It's a Legitimate question. You could have simply ignored it instead of attacking me personally. Btw, I can answer why the sky is blue. ---------- David Elk River Harmonicas
Dave your not 1st who doesn't understand how to play Little Walters music and can't figure out how to do play in his spirited style. It's nothing to be ashamed of, but when folks start throwing around the excuses like your doing and posing them as 'why' questions - in all honesty you come off as a cry baby...
