ridge
315 posts
Mar 16, 2012
6:46 PM
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I'm hoping someone could shed some light on this for me. It seems like a lot of harps I work on lately end up having the same flaw when I'm finished (C Golden Melody, D Special 20, Db Special 20, Eb Special 20) I get this horrendous overtone when doing a full 2 draw bend.
The only thing I can compare it to is the torsional vibration noise you can get from overblows when the reed twists from side to side. I've narrowed the noise down to coming directly from the 2 draw reed when in isolation, or if I inhale just right I can get this metallic sound to appear on it's own.
At the moment, all I've been able to do is try to dampen it, but I don't like this solution. The most significant change in how I set up my harps is that I am embossing them tighter towards the rivet ends than before. I'm positive that this isn't a clearance issue; it's not the buzz you get when you leave a burr on your reed slot.
I'm really hoping HarpNinja, Harpwrench, MP or Jim catch this post (don't say it's brass reeds :p) and know what I mean. I'll try to supply an audio clip in the meantime.
Thanks!
Last Edited by on Mar 16, 2012 6:53 PM
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Todd Parrott
877 posts
Mar 16, 2012
8:47 PM
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I think this came up once before and Joe chimed in... Hohner had a problem with this for awhile, and I believe (Joe correct me if I am wrong) that the best solution is to replace the reed. I had a few harps that had the same problem. There may be a way to add something like nail polish on the rivet end, similar to the way you would for overblows and overdraws, but I'll let the other guys answer this as well.
As far as I know, Hohner has corrected this problem.
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Kingley
1876 posts
Mar 17, 2012
5:07 AM
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I could well be wrong, but I seem to recall that it's a reed base seating problem that causes this issue. Have you tried giving the reed rivet a firm tap to make sure it's seated properly?
Last Edited by on Mar 17, 2012 5:08 AM
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barbequebob
1831 posts
Mar 17, 2012
7:40 AM
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It can also be that the the alignment of the two reeds in the hole isn't quite right because bends on a diatonic are a product of both reeds interacting with each other and when you bend 2 draw, it's actually the blow reed doing the bending and it is a phenomenon mentioned in the LO tool kit and to see it for yourself, remove both cover plates, play 2 draw, and when you are about to bend the note, put a finger on the 2 blow reed and the bend will stop immediately. In the blow reed bends, it's the draw reed that's actually doing the bending.
On a Hering 1923 Vintage Harp, I had this same problem and did everything from tapping the rivet down, regapping, etc, but when I realigned the reed plates sligthly, it stopped, but when I put the reed plate screws back in, the taps for the screws were also misaligned and so the problem returned.
The tapping of the rivet is usally necessary when the reed feels airy after doing most everything else and in this case, you can try it, but I seriously doubt it will alleviate this problem.
Every harp manufacturer has had this problem at one time or another and so trying to say one company is the only one doing this would be totally BS.
On the other hand, that overtones you hear you can use to train your playing in terms of breath and bend control because those overtones on a misaligned harp ALWAYS happens when you're playing way too hard and bending past the floor of the bend.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Kingley
1880 posts
Mar 17, 2012
7:53 AM
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"On the other hand, that overtones you hear you can use to train your playing in terms of breath and bend control because those overtones on a misaligned harp ALWAYS happens when you're playing way too hard and bending past the floor of the bend."
BBQ Bob - That's a great way to turn a negative into a positive.
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Tonyh
31 posts
Mar 17, 2012
10:06 AM
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This can happen if the reed profile is not good. Try to get the reed parallel with the reedplate and as flat as possible. The rivet side of the reed should be down a bit more than the reed tip. Sometimes the reeds are twisted and if you push them you will see one side enters the slot first and this can cause that problem too.
Push the reed with your finger in the slot while looking sideway with a light in the back and make sure the reed enters the slot almost all at the same time. The reed tip shouldn't enter first or any side left or right. It should enter at once.
In reality it is never perfect but that is what I aim for.
Hope it helps.
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ridge
316 posts
Mar 18, 2012
11:25 AM
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Thanks for all the input everyone. I'll try tapping the rivets down and check to see if the reeds in question are twisted.
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barbequebob
1835 posts
Mar 19, 2012
9:09 AM
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Just to further clarify my point on misalignement here. When I said misalignment, it had nothing to do with the reed in the reed slot, but the alignment of the reed plates when the harp was assembled in the factory and you'd be surprised how frequently this happens.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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ridge
317 posts
Mar 19, 2012
10:55 AM
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bbqbob,
Thanks for the clarification. I know what you mean now. There's a post I put up a few years ago about Golden Melodies that were made with nails... some of the worst reed placement relative to the slot I've ever seen.
One side has enough clearance to be able to put a razor blade in between with no problem and the other side is practically rubbing the edge of the slot.
In every instance where I am having this problem, there doesn't appear to be gross reed misalignment relative to the slot.
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