My name is Rodrigo, from Santiago, Chile. This is my first post.
I`ven played Harp from a litlle more than a year now, and I consider my self a slow learner (It took me six month to start bending).
I learn to overblow a couple of weeks ago in a Suzuki Bluesmaster (in Bb) with only gaping being done, so I'm in no way a good oberblower.
Whit this post a like to add a fact to de dispute on the "is hard (if not impossible) to overblow on a OOTB harp" V/S "its all techniques"
I will post 3 audio files with 2 different harps (and the same 4 dollars vocal mic). The first 2 will be a recording of a riff done in both harps, so you can ear the difference in the quality of them (or at least the volume difference). The third audio will be the recording of the overblows whit my Meistehaft (in C) harp.
A brief context on the Meistehaft harp:
This harps are very cheap (a little less than $10 dollars) and they are crap OOTB, being leaky as hell. My girlfriend give me this one on christmas and when I tested not even de Bob Dylan Chords sounded at all, so I opened.
I gaped the reeds, put micropore, and a little of embossing (is necessary to say that I never did any embossing job previous to this one, so it was mi first time), and open the coverplates.
After all this job was done, the harp improve a lot, but it is still a low quality harp, whith nothing to do against my Bluesmaster.
It is whit this harp that i can do an overblow.
Now the audios:
Control Riff:
The OB on the cheap harp:
My conclusion is that the overblows can be donde in any harp, you just need to work more. I agree and backup 100% with Adam on this matter.
I hope that this post will help to the discussion on this topic, I tried to this in the most objective way possible.
I can overblow 6 hole on a Hohner Blues band out of the box. Not pretty all the time and squeeky at times. No way I could get it smooth for a "run". I think that Rodrigo makes a good point. I think by working hard to make it work on a cheapo can only help you when you have a "real harp" in your mouth. My 1847's out of the box overblow with little effort. I love my 1847's.
I haven't tried setting up a really cheapo harp for OB, but I have been able to set up just about any harp I now have, including Harpmaster, Delta Frost, or Golden Melody for OB on several holes, and even for and OD on the 7 and sometimes on the 9 hole, without embossing, using just gapping. I'm not in any way a highly skilled technician, but I'm willing, as you are, to experiment. I think I'd tend to agree with your conclusion, just based on my own very limited experience. Welcome to the forum. ---------- Matthew
@Peduarte - I hate to resurrect old arguments, but that position doesn't add up to me. The chromatic is a different instrument: different chords, different tonality, requires different playing techniques. What if you want the chords and tonality of a diatonic? XB40 - no, sounds too much like a chrom. Koch/Slide Harp - doesn't have the playability of a good diatonic. Valves, overblows and slides are all different means to the same end. You choose the right tool for the job.
@Rogonzab
Good post. I started practicing my customising skills on 'Golden Cups' - these are really nasty, Chinese made £3 harmonicas. They are great for learning skills like tuning (they are really badly tuned from the factory!) and embossing & gapping. You're absolutely right, any harp can be overblown. As your skills improve, you'll find it easier to do on untweaked harps too.
I agree with Harptime. While I was doing the OBs on the cheap harp, I learn a lot, now it is much easier to do on the Bluesmaster. A lot easier. ---------- Bluesmaster Bb Meistehaft C
I've just started overblows and can get them on the harps that I've embossed and gapped but on a OOTB MB I get nothing. I'm not saying there's no technique involved but a well set up harp makes life a whole lot easier.
Here's my take on OOTB overblowing: I can almost always do it on the 4, 5, and 6. If I take a couple of minutes to gap the harps, I can always do it. But it's one thing to do those three overblows as passing tones--moving quickly through them--and another thing to bend OBs and hold them for extended notes. I can't bend OBs at all on stock harps, and I'm not very good at holding notes for a long time. I can, however, do both of those things quite a bit better on custom harps.
As for more esoteric techniques, like holding and bending overdraws--which Todd Parrott does with ease, to incredible effect--I can't do those at all.
I applaud all investigations of OBs, however. They're a really cool technique, and the more people do them, the more the young players coming into the blues harmonica world will start to make them the norm--"no big deal." I think that would be a great thing.
For those going to HCH, I will be doing a harp tech/customizing seminar and would love to cover setting up overblows at length (in all actuality, I'll be covering what people want info on, so if people don't care, then I won't be talking about it).
My plan is to continue to be accessible in regards to customizing my entire stay...which might extend into staying in Jackson on Tuesday and Wednesday. ---------- Mike VHT Special 6 Mods Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
Every time I see a post about over blowing I go back and try and try and try to no avail to achieve one. I currently have an old Bb Special 20 harp set aside that I opened up, taped off the the blow 6 reed and reassembled. (I got the idea from overblow.com.) I take that harp, blow into the six hole using every concievable contortion inside my mouth and... nothing! I've gone back over every single OB post and video that I can find and nothing works for me. AAAARRGGG!
Bluzlvr, can you jam in first position holes 7 through 10, in a style similiar to Jimmy Reed? If not, that is your next move on the road to overblows, imo.
@HarpNinja...I look forward to your seminars! Very cool.
I have practiced overbending now for about three years and am finally at a point that 4,5,6 ob and 7 od are a regular part of my playing. I can overblow one hole but have never used it in performance. I have used the 10 overdraw a few times on a G or A harp. 9 overdraw is useful in 3rd as the flat fifth.
I learned gapping from Adam a few years back at jam camp. That is all I do to my stock Golden Melodys.
On my stock harps from low F to high G I can get all the overblows and bend most of those up 1/2 step. Seems harder on hole one than on 4,5,6. The 7 od bends up pretty nicely as well. The 10 od is really only practical on the lower harps, but I do play them on the higher harps at home for the muscle development.
Different story on my custom Buddha harps. Bending the 5 or 6 overblow up 3... 1/2 steps comes pretty well. Bending the overdraws are a treat as well.
I look forward to Mike's class and maybe trying one of his harps.
bluzlvr, I've only been overblowing for about 3 months so here's my uneducated take on it. The mouth shape I'm using is like whistling and making the note raise in pitch. At some point you can feel a "back pressure" on your tongue. Try and "move" that pressure around, if you get a wheeze I'm assuming it's a leak. Hopefully you'll get some kind of noise, eventually that noise seems to "pop" into something more definite. Usually this is always at the limit of your breath so try and remember the mouth position. It took me about 3 days to get any kind of sound out of the harp.
@Michael Rubin. I can do blow bends with no problem, just can't translate them into overblows. @Gerry. Thanks. I'll give your advice a try. ---------- myspace
@Michael Rubin. I don't have any samples, but I do spend a lot of time jamming with them in first position. I'll have to go back and try OBs from that approach some more. (Love your Meat and Potatoes vids.) ---------- myspace
Gap both blow reed and draw reed to the place where the regular note plays, but gives resistance to playing. Then degap just a little to where they both easily play.
I think embossing helps and is relatively easy. I just take the reed plates off the comb and run a tuning fork centered over the reed with pressure. I do this on both the blow and draw reeds.
Anyone who has worked with me knows I am a total caveman at harp machinery. Yet when I sent an 1847 (that I had only gapped, not embossed) back to Seydel with a broken reed, Rupert Oystler called me to tell me it overblew great and wanted to know my secret.
What I am saying is, if I can do it, you can.
Start on 6 blow on a C harp. Use a small mouth pucker, like a canary kiss. Do not puff out your cheeks.Put the tip of your tongue just below the bottom gumline and bow your tongue up, almost touching your back bottom teeth with your tongue.
Use pressure on your upper lip, not in the center of the lip, but as though you have vampire teeth.
Start the note in your throat. If the hole was a door lading to a hallway, aim to the left side of the door to the floor of the hallway eight feet back from the door.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with Michael. I disagree with the small mouth pucker. I play with a very open mouth and throat with the harp in very deep. My cheek and sometimes upper lip do puff out because of facial muscle relaxation. To me the only pressure or actual muscle movement involved is the reshaping of the throat to redirct airflow off the front part of the roof of the mouth. Of course the tongue does bow up as a response to throat constriction. Everything should be loose.
Keeping the open mouth and throat gives you a richer tone on any note....especially overbends. This makes it very possible to play sets of sixteenth notes between. 6 blow, 6 draw bend, 6 draw, and 6 overblow. It also makes throat vbrato and /or bending the overblow up much cleaner. By pinching off you sacrafice tone.
Watch the guys that play the chromatic scale using overbends. Blow, draw, blow bends, draw bends, overblows, and overdraws are all done with the same embrouchure.
There is no "popping" to an overblow done correctly on a well set up harp. IT comes just as smooth and easy as any note on the harp.
Last Edited by on Feb 28, 2012 4:14 PM
This is a six overblow at around :07. As you can see my cheeks do puff out. Open mouth, harp deep. Keeping a big resonator gives much better control of tone and pitch. You have a bigger mass of air to play with.
You're right, you can do it that way and after jamming with attention I see I often do keep the same deep embouchure, but I rarely puff my cheeks. Tonally, I do not hear the difference yet. I'll keep listening.
