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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Chord-tone soloing
Chord-tone soloing
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timeistight
390 posts
Feb 26, 2012
2:51 AM
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Chord-tone soloing means constructing solos primarily or complete from the notes in the chord you're playing over at the time.
Why would you want to do that? Read on:
"I mean, chord-tone soloing is kind of lame, right? If you really want to be good, just learn a bunch of scales and then play them really fast in the right key.
Hipness? Attained.
OK, back to reality."
http://somuchsound.blogspot.com/2010/03/like-mike.html
"Is chord-tone soloing necessary for advanced improvisers?"
http://www.berklee.edu/bt/121/chord2.html
"Chord-Tone vs. Chord-Scale Soloing"
http://www.berklee.edu/bt/121/chord.html
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hvyj
2217 posts
Feb 26, 2012
5:29 AM
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Vertical vs. horizontal playing?
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Frank
310 posts
Feb 26, 2012
9:55 PM
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Personally, I always enjoy playing around with chordtones when improvising on blues chord changes. Those notes sound the best to me and they have a strong quality about them especially when I but emphasis on them. The other notes of what ever scale I'm using ( blues, maj/min pent, mixy)- I throw in as passing tones. I'm far from a Master improviser, but this approach seems to keep me on my toes and gives me plenty of ammunition to make up solos that keep me happy.
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timeistight
394 posts
Feb 26, 2012
11:36 PM
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That's what the masters do, Frank.
I don't think it's really a choice between vertical and horizontal. Scales are just chord tones and passing tones. The skill comes in how you arrange the elements in the line.
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mr_so&so
506 posts
Feb 27, 2012
7:51 AM
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It seems to me that for blues playing, I'd play mostly chord tones when comping, so as not to stand out too much, but it's the blue notes that make a solo, so they're far from passing notes. Isn't that the better approach for blues?
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HarpNinja
2220 posts
Feb 27, 2012
12:12 AM
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@mr_so&so
The usual approach to blues is to copy/paste learned riffs. Those riffs almost always are based out of the blues scale, or the minor pentatonic, of the I chord of an 8, 12, or 16 bar progression.
Those chords are usually Dominant 7 chords (this isn't the case in Major or minor arrangements, but let's stick to a typical blues). That chord is made up of the root, major third, perfect 5th, and minor 7th.
We can get really deep into this and how it is impacted by the song's harmony, etc, but let's keep it simple to start.
In second position, on a C harmonica the I chord of a blues would be (all draw notes):
2 3 4 5
Those are the notes that are going to sound most correct and provide the most resolution, which is the appeal of D7 chords to begin with - tension release. Note how these notes are the basis of pretty much any blues riff ever. You don't hear too many riffs that don't at least resolve to these notes.
The blue 3rd and flat 5th are the two missing blue notes. Note that I said blue third and not minor third as we typically don't bend the full half step in blues for the stylistic impact. IMO, this is why more players don't use 3rd for blues. The 5 draw often sounds too flat - especially on various compromised tunings. When you think about it, the blues scale is easier and just as expressive in 3rd...including when playing in harmony with all the chords.
While I agree that the flat 3 and flat 5 are important notes for playing blues, they are not the most important notes to be playing to be in harmony with the progression.
Without going on and on, their impact is made more relevant by the IV and V chords and the great picture of the whole song.
So in direct answer to your question, the best way to play blues and to have it sound like blues is to use the blues scale over D7 chords. ;)
You cold play 2 3 4 5 over the I all day and never play a wrong note. It would be boring, though. The other blue notes are what create the tension and release in a melody line that make the blues so interesting.
2 3 4 5 are great notes for resolution. the 3' and and 4' are great notes for creating tension.
***As soon as you start talking the IV and V chords, this gets more involved.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2012 12:15 AM
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timeistight
395 posts
Feb 27, 2012
12:15 AM
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Blue notes are in a whole different category. They seem to relate more to the key than to the chord of the moment, although they also often function as inflected chord tones.
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mr_so&so
507 posts
Feb 27, 2012
8:20 AM
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@HarpNinja, It sounds like you are agreeing with me then? If you want to stay in harmony, stick to the chord tones with other notes as passing notes. This would be good for comping. For soloing make full use of the blue notes for building tension and resolve to chord tones (and we are talking blues playing here).
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HarpNinja
2221 posts
Feb 27, 2012
12:36 AM
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They only relate to the key because of how they fit the next chord...for example, the flat 3rd on the I chord is the flat 7th of the IV chord. It would be flat 6th of the V chord, which would not sound good for blues.
The blues scale works over blues because blues progressions are diatonic and each of the three chords shares several notes.
I G B D F
IV C E G Bb
V D F# A C
If you look at the scales that work over a D7 chord, you will see even more over lap between the chords. Here is a cross harp example of blues scales:
I 2 3' 4+ 4' 4 5 6+
IV 1+ 1ob 2" 2' 2 3' 4+
V 1 2" 2 3"' 3" 4+ 4
It would be misleading to suggest that the blue notes work diationically to the progression. Meaning, just because it is a blue note relative to the key, that doesn't mean it works over all three chords.
For example, playing the flat 3 of the I chord over the V chord is a "wrong" note to play. That same is true about the flat 3 of the IV chord over the I chord, etc.
The ultimate point to this whole thread is that there are a ton of benefits for a non-chordal instrument like harp, to learning about chords and chord tones. This is even true if your only goal is to play blues solos over blues progressions.
Think about it from the standpoint of a harmonica player playing an hour set. Understanding stuff like this is just an extra tool to keeping things fresh and interesting. I think there is a lot of benefit from learning to play inside before trying to play outside. This is true of blues harmonica played in cross, too.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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HarpNinja
2222 posts
Feb 27, 2012
12:48 AM
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We pretty much agree. I would say that you still want to use the chord tones as your home base, though.
For example, you can play all the flat 3rds you want, but you should resolve to a note of the chord. Where this becomes trickier is when playing in context against all three chords.
What I try to do is use the blues scale in cross but start it on the flat 7 rather than the 1, etc. That way I use notes other than the 1 for resolution. I use the flat 3rd as a real note all the time, but I treat the flat 5 like an embellishment more than a note.
There are technical terms for this, but they escape me, lol. I do the same thing when playing in say 12th. I use 5th as my "tonic". In 4rd, I use the flat 7th.
I play just as much 3rd and 12th as 2nd as most my gigs are not blues gigs. I learned 2nd like everyone else - scales. I taught myself 3rd using a more jazz-theory oriented approach. I've found I play much more melodically and interesting in the 3rd (and 12th as it is the relative minor). In 2nd, I am much more likely to riff and play patterns....the exception being the top octave.
I dunno, I find riff based improvisation limiting and stressful. I do like the architecture laid out by David Barrett of using riffs, but even then, I am much more likely to to follow that based off an improvised lick than a riff.
I've told the story here repeatedly of the guy who could play back dozens of the most famous blues harp solos note for note in isolation, but when he played with bands he sucked. From the very beginning, I knew it was of more benefit for me to learn to improvise rather than try to play composed parts.
Regarding comping, I try not to play the root either...that is the bass player's job. I play a lot of chords and double stops when comping and rarely play lines. I try to pick those based off the 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 7th of the chord.
So, on a blues, over the I, I would maybe play the 1-4 octave split or even 2-5.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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Frank
312 posts
Feb 27, 2012
1:24 AM
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imeistight...true, and depending on what particular type of blues I'm playing I'll play within the notes of any useful scale/scales and when improvising I tend to play to the chord that’s floatin by. And I'll keep the phrasing fairly simple trying to let tone, dynamics and syncopation make it interesting.
mr_so&so...your right, The blue notes and everything in between ( the succulent blue 3rd ect.) are "the shit" and I will blast those depending on the song.
Mike...I agree and for me personally when improvising, I need to work off of the notes themselves., I need to feel free and spontaneous when I improvise. I can't seem to throw a lick or riff in the mix just off the top of my head - If they do find their way into my solos, it wasn't preplanned, it would be because I was hearing it wanting to be stated in the song. The whole point of improvising, from my perspective is to keep things as fresh and real as possible by making my own statement musically.
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2012 1:29 AM
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