groyster1
1650 posts
Dec 24, 2011
12:47 PM
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I just dont have an ear for different keys-Im going to a house party on new years to blow harp with some amatuer guitar players,drummer,etc-I always have to ask what key are we in? its second nature to know which harp to play in cross harp in but is it irritating to have to keep asking?
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Cristal Lecter
240 posts
Dec 24, 2011
12:52 PM
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know your C harmonica by heart and use it as a reference to pick the tonic of the song...
Usually the guitar players, especially for blues music, play mostly in E...
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_________________________________________
Daughter of Hannibal Lecter, also known as "Christelle Berthon"
Last Edited by on Dec 24, 2011 12:53 PM
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oldwailer
1804 posts
Dec 24, 2011
1:04 PM
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Or, just keep asking--they'll catch on and just start telling you at the start--even guitar players need to learn some of the basic etiquette of playing music! ;-)
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Oldwailer's Web Site
Always be yourself--unless you suck. . .
-Joss Whedon
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dougharps
140 posts
Dec 24, 2011
1:17 PM
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I sit in with bands a lot, in addition to my own bands. Often songs are moved to a key that the singer can sing in, so no one should assume you know the key.
If I can't figure out the key, I ask. If I am expected to play during the intro, I ask. I often wait for the progression to establish itself while I search for the key of harp that best fits it. I will let the groove develop and listen to the changes before I start to play on mic.
To figure it out on my own, first I try to read the guitar chords on the "I" chord, to figure out the tonic, the key of the song. I know simple chords. If they are using barre chords, I may need to count frets. If they are doing unusual jazz chords, I have no idea how to read that.
Another way to try is to take the C harp and try to find the note of the "I" chord on the middle octave of the harp. That note is usually the tonic, the key of the song. I will then pick a harp that fits the position that goes with the key and the progression.
Sometimes I can limit my key choices by the hearing the pitch range of the melody notes and if it fits a lower pitched harp or higher.
If this is a friendly jam, they should not find it annoying that you ask. Just be sure you are playing in the right key and leave room for the vocals and other instruments when they are soloing. If you play in the wrong key or play constantly over everyone else, they will find that annoying. Try to make what you do add to the overall music being played. When in doubt, lay out.
Also, pay attention to whether the stringed instruments tune to a concert pitch with a tuner, tuning fork, or pitch pipe. You can't sound good if they just tune to themselves and are not tuned to concert pitch. Usually these days people use electronic tuners.
A jam should be fun. Don't be afraid to ask the key.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
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Doug S.
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bharper
134 posts
Dec 24, 2011
1:22 PM
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I always ask the key if I am unsure. It's not a big deal.
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groyster1
1651 posts
Dec 24, 2011
1:37 PM
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thanks folks and merry christmas and happy new year to all forum members!
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Epworthslim
38 posts
Dec 24, 2011
2:01 PM
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just print of some guitar chord charts as a reference if you dont want to ask
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Slim's-Custom-Harmonica-Cases-Website
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Littoral
455 posts
Dec 24, 2011
2:16 PM
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I try not to ask and most always get it quick.
Cristal's, suggestion is a good one.
I can get it within a 5th by ear so most
any harp I go for will have the tonic within 2-3 notes.
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Joe_L
1683 posts
Dec 24, 2011
3:05 PM
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Just ask.
Its less embarrassing than being in the wrong key. ----------
The Blues Photo Gallery
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Michael Rubin
384 posts
Dec 24, 2011
3:07 PM
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Train your ear by singing arpeggios along with a keyboard and playing arpeggios on you harp. Band in the box has great ear training video games.
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groyster1
1652 posts
Dec 24, 2011
3:25 PM
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@JoeL
yes if Im in the wrong key,I will damn sure know it-UNACCEPTABLE!
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hvyj
2025 posts
Dec 24, 2011
3:41 PM
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I'm never shy about asking what key we're in.
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lor
58 posts
Dec 24, 2011
4:34 PM
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sorry i put the thing in the wrong thread
Last Edited by on Dec 24, 2011 4:36 PM
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Greg Heumann
1390 posts
Dec 24, 2011
11:42 PM
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Davis Barrett taught me this method. Took me some practice but I use it all the time now, and quickly. He calls it "using the C harmonica as a pitch pipe." You need to memorize the names of the notes on ONLY the 1st 4 holes for draw and blow.
Now when the song starts, find the root note of the tune IN YOUR HEAD. Hum it to yourself until you know you have it. Keep humming it - THEN find THAT note on the 1st 4 holes of your C harp- due to bends you have the most notes available there. Found it on 3 draw (B) bent down a whole step? The song is in the key of A. (B bent down one half step is Bb. Bent down two half steps = whole step is therefore an A.)
It is OK to ask but depending on the situation you won't always get an answer once the song has started.
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/Greg
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Jim Rumbaugh
622 posts
Dec 25, 2011
7:06 AM
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1) I agree with Greg Heumann. Learn the first 4 holes on the C harmonica and find your pitch that way.
or
2)Cristal said,"guitar players, especially for blues music, play mostly in E". I believe that may true for her circle of friends. I say you will find 5 keys:
E,G,A,C,D
Just keep 5 harps ready and work through all 5.
(but you can be thrown off if they are playing minor keys, ussually E minor, A minor or D minor)
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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FMWoodeye
158 posts
Dec 25, 2011
7:12 AM
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OR...you can be thrown off if the key changes during the course of the song (doesn't happen too often in blues music). That's why I always wear tap shoes and keep a tambourine handy.
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Spider
34 posts
Dec 25, 2011
7:12 AM
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I made a sign, in huge letters,
WHAT KEY?
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groyster1
1654 posts
Dec 25, 2011
7:15 AM
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@spider
great idea!!!
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easyreeder
69 posts
Dec 25, 2011
7:38 AM
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My weekly night out is an open mic where the mix is eclectic but based on bluegrass tradition. Only one mic is provided and there are no monitors. We gather around the mic and step forward to solo. Frequently I end up behind the guitar player(s) with a Dobro or a snare drum next to me and it's impossible to see or hear chord changes. I can find the key the majority of the time if I can see the guitar neck, or at least hear the guitar. But often I have no alternative but to ask because I can't even hear myself playing with the Dobro going in my ear. Fortunately, the regulars are all nice fellas and will throw me the key if I ask.
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hvyj
2026 posts
Dec 25, 2011
7:52 AM
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Yeah. Playing with an electric band at relatively high volume presents a similar problem trying to pick out the key by ear. So, I have no hesitation about asking.
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crispyagain
46 posts
Dec 27, 2011
8:36 AM
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I get the feeling that if they don't tell you the key, it means they don't care if you play or not. It's really frustrating...they take off on a song you know you can jam your face off on it,,and you don't know the key and can't hear yourself good enough to figure it out without going through the amp trying to get in on the fun. This is true for open jams....obviously if your playing with a band you should know the key of each song in advance. If Charlie Brown had of been a musician he would have been a harmonica player.
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clyde
201 posts
Dec 27, 2011
9:20 AM
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if you aren't the front man stand by the bass player they'll tell you the key.... if you are the front man shame on you. if they put you way off to the side just come in and ask every single time. they might get the message. but crispy could be right also.
in defense of some of the other jammers sometimes harp guys are out in left field and not really paying much attention to what's going on before the song starts. i know that's not always the case.
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markdc70
100 posts
Dec 27, 2011
10:37 AM
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I usually watch the bass player, and with most guys, I can tell where their fingers are for the root and figure it out from there. Then I'll play a little, unmiced with my finger in my ear, to see if it sounds right.
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LittleBubba
138 posts
Dec 27, 2011
1:26 PM
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...then there's always the guys who want to tell you what harp key to grab; don't listen to THEM; they don't know what position you're gonna play in; & some people don't know the difference between a major and minor key, or if the tune starts on a chord other than the tonic.
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JInx
155 posts
Dec 27, 2011
2:54 PM
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If I can't find the key, I lay out. If it happens more than once, it's more than likely that I'll lose interest in the collaboration and split.
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Miles Dewar
1177 posts
Dec 27, 2011
4:29 PM
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Where have Hand Signals gone?
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Jim Rumbaugh
625 posts
Dec 27, 2011
7:22 PM
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OK Miles, what are the "official" hand signals????
I've experienced some goofy hand signals in the past, but I've never known an officially accepted set of hand signals. I need to know them.
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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Littoral
456 posts
Dec 28, 2011
6:20 AM
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Hand signals are are holding up the number of sharps and down the number of flats. Old school.
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barbequebob
1788 posts
Dec 28, 2011
8:41 AM
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As far as what keys blues is played on guitars, E is certainly NOT the only key they play in, from pro experience but certain blues styles tend to be played in certain keys more than others. For example, if it's Jimmy Reed, Eddie Taylor, or 50's Chicago blues, ut's often E, A, D, or G, but if they're gonna be doing something swinging or more jazzy, Bb, F, B and C is going to be more common.
Since I also play a bit of guitar, I usually can just look at the fingering pattern the guitarist uses for the keys on the fretboard, and also DOING THE HOMEWORK to listen VERY CLOSELY to different recurring patterns, like intros, as certain intros tend to be played in certain keys more often than others.
Having played guitar also helped me when I was gigging on the road with Luther Guitar Junior Johnson and Jimmy Rogers because they often wouldn't call out the key and so, with Jimmy, he would show you his fingering pattern for the chords on the fretboard, or with Luther, certain intros would only be played in certain keys and just PAYING VERY STRICT ATTENTION to even the most minute of details helps out a lot.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Jim Rumbaugh
626 posts
Dec 28, 2011
10:06 AM
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@Littoral THANKS, I never knew. Now I gotta learn my key signatures.......
SO from the sacred CIRCLE OF FITHS
0 (hold up a circle ) means C
1 up = G
2 up = D
3 up = A
4 up = E
5 up = B
1 down = F
2 down = Bd
3 down = Ed
4 down = Ab
5 down = Dd
Finally, men can signal the key of F# (6 sharps) with the help of an obscene gesture, which would be apropriate for anyone calling out the key of F#. :)
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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clyde
205 posts
Dec 28, 2011
10:19 AM
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that's right jim. don't forget to add or subtract fingers for the horn players.
Last Edited by on Dec 29, 2011 9:19 AM
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bonedog569
441 posts
Dec 28, 2011
10:24 PM
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You got three methods now - and I'll add one at the end.
1) Ask - no shame in it., Make friends with the bass player as suggested- or just let em all know. "have pitty on the harp player and throw me the key please"
2) Learn the simple guitar chords and start to recognize them
3) Use the C harp to find the tonic (you can also use 4-7 holes without bends for the C major scale of course)
4) If it's a band and not a jam session, see if they've got an extra copy of the set list, - or look over someone's shoulder at it. They often have the key next to the title.
My acoustic playing partner has recently starting using a capo for every tune, - and often doesn't know what key he's in himself!. - Now THAT makes it tricky. - I'm working on him to at least commit to a given key on a given song, - or figure it out and let me know before we start playing.
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LSC
126 posts
Dec 28, 2011
10:41 PM
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One trick I've learned to hear yourself over the band without using a mic is to put a finger in one ear like singers do. You will hear the note inside your head and you don't have to play a note loud to hear it. If you think you know the key but you're unsure for whatever reason, this technique allows you to test the key without annoying anyone.
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LSC
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