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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Turning to the dark side...
Turning to the dark side...
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HarpNinja
2017 posts
Dec 20, 2011
6:28 AM
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Ok, not really, but it was a clever title.
For my birthday, my family usually gets me something related to harmonica. For example, last year they ordered me a B-Rad (it is the thought that counts). This year, it was a PT Gazell Method Session Steel in D. It should be here in the next day or two.
I am very excited to try valves - double true on higher keys which are harder to set up for overdraws without advanced customization work.
This will probably be a moot point as the steel harps from Seydel usually require more immediate tweaking for OBs than brass Hohners, but Hohners can be half-valved too in the event that I like the valves, etc.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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REM
127 posts
Dec 20, 2011
2:05 PM
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I'm an overblow player, but I actually half-valve my harps on holes 7-10. I like overblows but I've never been that fond of the overdraws (although listening to Todd Parrott's recent videos has started to change my mind. He makes the overdraws sound great and they seem to blend in with the higher notes perfectly, at least when he plays them). I really like the valves on the high end because the added draw bends make the upper octave just like the middle octave. So anything that you play on holes 3-6, you play on holes 7-10, and it is played almost the exact same way (the only thing that's different is that the blow notes aren't in the same position. the blow notes move one hole to the left in relation to the draw notes, but anyone who's already familiar with playing in the upper octave should have no problem).
So, for example, a common lick is to repeatedly play: 4D', 4D, 5D, 4D', 4D, 5D, etc. *played as triplets* (The apostrophy stands for a bend, so 4D'= 4 draw half step bend)
You can easily move this lick up to the upper octave, and it's played the exact same way: 8D', 8D, 9D, 8D', 8D, 9D, etc.
Another thing I like is that I have two ways of playing the minor/blue third(in 2nd pos.) in the middle octave. I can either play the the 6OB or the 7D', depending on the situation. For example, a common lick is to play: 4D',4D,4D',3D',2D
If I want to move this lick up an octave I would play it almost exactly the same way: 8D',8D,8D',7D',6B
So in this example I would choose to use the 7D' instead of the 6OB because it allows you to play this lick much smoother. If I used the 6OB I'd have to jump from the 8 hole to to the 6 hole, while changing from draw to blow, and going straight into an OB. This wouldn't be nearly as smooth. If I didn't use valves, I would never play this lick in the upper octave because it would be to akward to play, and the lick just wouldn't sound right, it wouldn't sound smooth. Here's how it would need to be played without valves: 7OD,8D,7OD,6OB,6B. Yes, it is possible to play, but I don't think you'd ever be able to get it to sound as good.
When you're learning to play with valves, playing sustained valved draw bends is more challenging than the valved blow bends. But with practice it should eventually become second nature. Also, just like with overdraws, the valved draw bends become more challenging on the higher key harps. This too just takes practice.
I hope you have fun with the valved harp Mike.
Last Edited by on Dec 20, 2011 9:51 PM
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Michael Rubin
374 posts
Dec 20, 2011
2:56 PM
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AT SPAH I picked up a Seydel Bb and PT fine tuned it for me. It is fun. There is no comparison in my opinion, overblows are far more useful and I like the sound of them much better. But I have appreciation for a good idea.
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REM
129 posts
Dec 20, 2011
4:04 PM
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How are overblows more useful? I don't see how you could come to that conclusion. You may prefer using overblows, but that doesn't mean they're more useful. They're both just techniques for providing missing notes. Also, valved bends allow you to do some things that overbends don't, for example they allow you put extra expression on all the regular notes (meaning it allows you to bend in and out of them, and put a true vibrato on them*). But this also doesn't mean they're more useful than overblows, or vice-versa.
As for the overblows sounding better, that's completely subjective. I remember Chris Michalek saying that valved bends are much more consistent in tone/sound to the other notes(in comparison to OBs)(that's just his opinon, and I'm not saying I agree, or disagree), and if he had to do it all over again he might have chosen to play half-valved instead of OBs.
*When I say valves allow you to get a true vibrato on all the notes, I realise that when playing a non-valved harmonica it is possible to slightly bend the non-bend notes(blow 1-6, draw 7-10). So you can put a very slight vibrato on them, but valves allow you to put a much better, stronger vibrato on them (like you would have on the other notes).
Last Edited by on Dec 20, 2011 9:53 PM
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HarpNinja
2021 posts
Dec 21, 2011
5:48 AM
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I am a member at bluesharmonica.com as well as having a PT CD that Chris Michalek gave to me. I think the sound PT gets is wonderful. There are times where it sounds like a chromatic, but as previously stated in OB discussions, I am not sure if it is the timbre that sounds like a chromatic or how he uses chromatic tones not typically associated with the diatonic.
My ability to set-up and play overdraws opens a lot of doors for me too, but it'd be silly of me to not give some of these other options at least enough of a shot to say I've experimented with them (alternate tunings, valves, chromatic, etc).
Worst case scenario, I take the valves off, lol.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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Todd Parrott
808 posts
Dec 21, 2011
6:15 AM
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I say use 'em all, whatever works and whatever sounds best for the song. I use valves, country tuning, overblows and overdraws, etc.
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HarpNinja
2024 posts
Dec 21, 2011
10:12 AM
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I am really digging the chromatic right now. I even played two songs on it in public (I'm Ready and a Son of Dave tune).
I barely use the button, but an unvalved chromatic is really fun assuming you have a good grip on 3rd position, which is my default position on harp anyways.
The only logistical piece of the valving I am not sold on is the note layout in the upper ocatve compared to the notes available with overdraws. I am not talking where they lay out, but what is actually there.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the heart...
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REM
130 posts
Dec 21, 2011
6:14 PM
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Mike, I don't understand what you mean in that last paragraph. Can you try to explain what you were saying? Thanks.
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