Rag(time) is not unrelated to Blues. For example, I'd say Robert Johnson's Hot Tamales is pure ragtime. But I'm finding it a bit hard to find out stuff about it. Older forum members will remember that there was a Scott Joplin revival in the Seventies resulting from the movie The Sting, but other ragtime composers were unheard of. I'd be hugely grateful if, between you, you could supply what you know about composers and recordings of what was possibly an important precursor to the blues. ---------- Andrew. ----------------------------------------- The only good cat is a stir-fried cat. (ALF)
I play a little piano, and ragtime is about my favorite thing to play. I have a book of all of Scott Joplin's sheet music, and at one point I had a compilation by some other composers.
I would say-- and I'm not an expert-- that simpler blues forms are probably the precursors to ragtime, and not the other way around. I always think of ragtime as an early style of jazz. Ragtime has somewhat more complex, although predictable, chord progressions, which seem to be derived from march music. Perhaps the syncopated rhythms borrow more from the bluesy side of things.
Part of the problem in figuring out what came first is that, at ragtime's inception, recording technology was practically non-existent. For this reason, it's hard to say precisely what was going on in the folk/blues world, which would not have produced any sheet music. Ragtime, often created by white performers in a more-or-less derisive imitation of "black" music, is dressed up for popular consumption.
Scott Joplin was significant--I think-- because he approached the form with a certain seriousness. He had classical aspirations. That is why he was adamant that people play his music at a graceful tempo instead of speeding it up. The tempo issue is an ongoing debate among ragtime aficionados. This website addresses it in full:
http://www.perfessorbill.com/ragtime6.shtml
Anyway, I hope that helps a little.
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2011 3:13 AM
Calvin, it helps a lot, thanks! Yes, I had probably that same Scott Joplin book in the Seventies, but it has got lost in the intervening years. ---------- Andrew. ----------------------------------------- The only good cat is a stir-fried cat. (ALF)
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2011 5:15 AM
@Andrew Interesting question. The blues/ragtime of Hot Tamales etc often seems to use the classic I VI II V or variants of it. SBW1's "Wonderful Time" has a similar arrangement, as does the Mississippi Sheiks "Shake Hands and Tell Me Goodbye". It seems to be musically related to the jug band sound of the Memphis Jug Band, Will Shade, Gus Cannon, Noah Lewis and others.
Anyway, enough random speculation, hope others can fill in the gaps
Blind blake is the Way to go! Fingerstyle/ragtime/bluesguitarist. Youtube his ass! If you play guitar you head will start to spin.. Sometimes both the bassline and the rythm section are HEAVY syncapated and he does it all at the same time!
So far, the only jug band I've ever listened to is the 13th Floor Elevators, lol! ---------- Andrew. ----------------------------------------- The only good cat is a stir-fried cat. (ALF)
The reason I'm asking is because I've got a guitar book on the CAGED system. It's a crappy book, but it does have a good score of the Ironweed Rag in it, and it's fun to play. ---------- Andrew. ----------------------------------------- The only good cat is a stir-fried cat. (ALF)
Thanks for the recommendation, Milsson, I've just ordered a Blind Blake CD. ---------- Andrew. ----------------------------------------- The only good cat is a stir-fried cat. (ALF)
W.C. Handy was an important link between the rag and blues. While scholars have called it a stretch to call him the "Father of the Blues" that he so aptly titled himself, he was one of the first artists to bring it into the public eye as well as having sheet music published. While he admits that the basic three chord harmonic structure was already being used, his addition of flat 3rd and 7ths in the melodic lines to imiate the slurring of notes of black vocalists was novel. This song is a good example of the blending of the two genres (as currently defined):
If you are serious about learning ragtime/fingerstyle blues then i would advise you to check out wood mann´s books and videos. I think stefan grossman has som fingerstyle videos to.
Ragtime began as a piano style but spread into guitar and proto-jazz ensembles; most of the pop music of the 1890s, especially the so-called "coon songs," was set to a ragtime beat. Scott Joplin was the king; he was associated with the town of Sedalia, Missouri. Ragtime was basically honky-tonk music, good-timing music for drinking and whoring to, but Joplin transformed it into real concert music.
Rag(or "ragged")time music moved outward into the larger culture. It was certainly one of the major pop strains in the 1890s and early 1900s; in a sense, it was the big thing in the period just before blues and jazz. Both of those musics absorbed ragtime rhythms and melodic approaches, and some forms of blues, especially in the Piedmont region of the southeast--guys like Blind Blake, for example; and much later, Leon Redbone--created a syncopated, complicated, but highly melodic version of blues called ragtime blues. It's very different from the deep Mississippi stuff. Brownie McGhee played a fairly ragtimey style, but I'd urge you to check out the other two guys.
There's a great book by scholar Edward Berliner about Joplin and the rise of ragtime.
There was indeed a big ragtime revival in the 1970s; I think it was because the film THE STING had a ragtime soundtrack.
Here's a video of Leon Redbone playing "Diddy Wah Diddy." This is exemplary ragtime blues.
And here's the Blind Blake original:
And here's a master teacher of ragtime blues guitar, Stefan Grossman, teaching the song:
If you live in Portland Oregon, look up Steve Martin, (his real name) aka Ellis Deitrich. We worked together as a duo for 8 years in Austin. He plays 12 string guitar tuned down to Bb. He plays both ragtime fingerpicking blues and Slide guitar and is ridiculously good at both styles, although a better improviser with the slide. We did many Blind Blake songs. We called ourselves Scarecrow and put out a CD, Catch My Jumper. I would be amazed if you could find it.
Damn, I hope I'm still in time to cancel my order. ---------- Andrew. ----------------------------------------- The only good cat is a stir-fried cat. (ALF)
