|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Consistent, bendable harmonica
Consistent, bendable harmonica
Page:
1
habanero
1 post
Dec 06, 2011
6:12 PM
|
Hey yall,
I started playing the blues harp about 4 years ago. I noticed Adam Gussow's tutorials, and I really wanted to learn how to play.
I originally purchased a Hohner Special 20, and then picked up about 3 more Hohner Blues Harm MS's.
Once I learned how to bend and overblow, I found that ALL of these harps were inconsistent. On one, I could bend the 2 draw very smoothly 2 and 1/2 steps down. Then, on another harp, using the same technique, it would only go 1 step down, and it would "jump" down, instead of bend.
I think its fine to use 1 harmonica like this to determine if you want to learn to play the thing, but I am pretty frustrated at the instrument when, based on its quality of design and parts, will not produce the bend, no matter your level of playing proficiency.
I have also watched tutorials of how to manipulate the reeds, and all I can get them to do is either not sound by making the gap too large or too small. I dont think its possible to alter a reed that will not smoothly bend a note into something that will precisely and consistently bend, without either replacing it, or seriously altering the thing, which isnt what I am looking for.
What I am looking for is a quality manufactured harp which will smoothly and consistently bend out of the box, providing that the player is using correct technique.
I have looked into the Suzuki Promaster, as well as the Firebreath. I am fine with the price range, however, I would hate to move up to this price range, only to find that the 2 draw "jumps" down 1/2 a step, and thats it.
If you have any recommendations for a harp that you can trust will bend very nicely out of the box, I would be highly interested.
Tony A.
|
Jehosaphat
130 posts
Dec 06, 2011
7:15 PM
|
Buying any Harp is a crapshoot.There is basically no such thing as an OTB that is guaranteed to be set up for bends.
This is a product of both the manufacturing process and also of each individuals abilities and natural resonnance.
The only ways to guarantee a harp will bend smoothly is to learn to gap your own reeds or buy a custom one.Even the customs will sometimes need a little fiddling to make them match your own style pf playing eg hard or soft player?
I bought 5 Johnson blues kings (6$ ea) in an emergency once.After the gig i threw 4 of them away but one of them was one of the best OTB i have ever tried(didn't last long though)
In contrast some 100$ harps have needed some quite drastic gapping work.
One of the tricks in gapping is to think of the distance that you feel it needs and halve it.You really are looking at minute shifts in the reeds,especially on the high harps.
|
arzajac
689 posts
Dec 06, 2011
7:37 PM
|
"I dont think its possible to alter a reed that will not smoothly bend a note into something that will precisely and consistently bend, without either replacing it, or seriously altering the thing, which isnt what I am looking for."
Not true. You are not doing it right. With just a few hours practice, you should be able to make any of the harps you mentioned work very very well by shaping and gapping the reeds. You can do further work, too, but just those two things should be enough to make quality harp (you mentioned the SP20 and Blues Harp MS) a joy to play.
I suggest Richard Sleigh's book "Straighten up and tune right". That book will highlight what you need to do right and show you how to save time and effort.
Short of buying custom harps for the rest of your life, you will never find an Out-Of-The-Box harmonica that will satisfy you 100 per cent of the time. Learning to tweak them is the closest thing to what you are seeking as well as the most economical in the long run.
----------
|
mandowhacker
98 posts
Dec 06, 2011
7:47 PM
|
I first think of the old drag racing "run what ya brung" and suggest that you learn to play it as it may be.
Then, I think it best to save and buy Seydel 1847's in any form you can get. They will do what you need.
----------
Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
|
shadoe42
90 posts
Dec 06, 2011
8:32 PM
|
even after playing off and on for over ten years and more seriously for about 6 I find that more often than not it is more my technique than the harp. Now a little gapping can go a long way.
I have found that Susuki Harpmasters are pretty consistent out of the box. But I gap them as well. Sometimes I play them for a bit and once they get broken in i will do a little gapping. Until now I have only gapped slightly. i recently picked up Richard Sleigh's Turbo Charge your Harmonica Vol 1 so i can learn to really set my harps up in a way they will be maximized to me. I don't overblow(yet) so specialized customization I don;t feel i need(would love some but can't afford it) :)
Anyway point is as has been said its always a bit of a die roll on an OOTB harp. And very often a slight change in technique will fix the issue.
I have to make adjustments when I switch from a harpmaster to a sp20 or LO... and even some small adustments depending on the key.
----------
The Musical Blades
|
FMWoodeye
102 posts
Dec 06, 2011
8:41 PM
|
@Mandowhacker....right on, I'm thinking. I sat down tonight with a Marine Band in A, Crossover in C, a Special 20 in A and a Promaster in C. All (or each) have slightly different bendability and playability characteristics. As I might be called upon to play any of them (I wish) with little or no notice, I learn to play them all and make the micro adjustments necessary to get the job done.
|
Jehosaphat
131 posts
Dec 06, 2011
10:29 PM
|
As an addendum..I was learning to play during hohners worst period,out of tune and absolutely 'unbendable' harps.In NZ at the time they were really the only available harmonicas and i almost gave up playing because of them.Then along came the internet with all its resources and I realised i wasn't the only one having problems.........
Lee oscars became available and suddenly i actually could bend and of course i became aware of 'gapping'.(and different tunings etc)
'Tis a journey of discovery
|
Pistolcat
62 posts
Dec 07, 2011
7:36 AM
|
Are the harps all in one key? If not then the mystery is solved. If you use "the same technique" bending one different keyed harps then you will overshoot greatly at the higher keyed, producing a very choked, poor-tone bend. That being said, I only have one pro aster in Bb. It came delivered with a One blow that choked when approached reasonably, forget about octaving. I had to gap up that hole. Overblows on six hole gave a lot of torsional squeals when not blown very carefully. I also don't like the coverplate profile which I find too wide and blunt. But that's not a problem if you tb or have got a better (different) embouchure than me.
I find the crossover the best ootb harp I have tried but none of my harps have been inconsistent on my normal draw or blow bends. Just my technique.
----------
Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
|
HarpNinja
1965 posts
Dec 07, 2011
9:11 AM
|
Harps don't play the same key to key. You can get them closer by gapping, but an F is not going to bend just like an A.
Harps of the same key can play a lot alike by learning to gap. I feel strongly that you have to assume you will need to gap every harp you ever buy. Sure, a company could gap every harp to your standard, but what about the millions of other harp players who would want them set differently?
Furthermore, if you are an overbend player, it isn't fair to blame consistency on the company. As far as I know, the models discussed here are not made with the ability to overblow in mind. Again, they could gap for that, but the supply/demand isn't there. You are asking the harp to do something it wasn't set up to do. That DOES NOT mean you are doing something unnatural by overbending. It just means that, from the factory, they are not set-up to maximize that capability.
----------
Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
|
hvyj
1997 posts
Dec 07, 2011
11:20 AM
|
Best and most consistent OOB harps i 've ever played are Suzuki Hammonds. BUT, you may still get some "slippage" on the three 3D bends. However, response is VERY even through all registers. The combs on the Hammonds are better (more consistently flat) than on the Promasters. But, of course, no matter which brand of harmonicas you are playing, different keys require a different breath attack in order to get proper response.
Personally, precision and consistency of bends is why i buy custom harps (I don't OB). Just got a set of custom GMs from HarpNinja. Wow! Even better than my Buddha harps. Wonderful very even response, excellent volume and precision, with very smooth tone and NO RASP!
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2011 11:22 AM
|
MagicPauley57
108 posts
Dec 07, 2011
5:53 PM
|
i find the old faithful lee oskars , are good for a reasonble price and they do what i expect of them , like harpninja stated , different keys will have thier own limits , eg , low f , will need a bit more lung power to pull off bends but it's purely down to practice and knowing how to get the most out of them .
|
Casey
11 posts
Dec 07, 2011
6:38 PM
|
Ditto Arzajac and Harpninja. The hohners you mentioned are as good as any out of the box harmonicas in that price range. Embossing is often neccessary in addition to proper gapping. Sometimes the reed slot is just too wide. No ammount of gapping or comb sanding/sealing/taping is going to fix a wide slot. You'll never get good compression/consistent bends until that slot clearance is at or under .002in.
|
habanero
2 posts
Dec 07, 2011
9:19 PM
|
Thanks for all of the responses.
I am playing different keys. I totally get that different keys play differently, however, it seems impossible to get some of my notes to bend. I have tried gapping, and different bending techniques, and some of the notes just will not cooperate.
I appreciate the references to different books which can be useful. I guess I am going to have to get expert at manipulating the reeds to get the playability I want.
My primary instrument is the guitar. I have a Fender Showmaster 6 string electric, and had it setup with a bone nut, bridge adjustment, polished frets, intonation. It came with locking tuners. This thing stays in tune, and only once in a while do I need to tune the thing up, and when I do, it takes about 10 seconds. This thing will stay in tune for months with very little attention. I was hoping to get a similar experience with some harps where I can pick them up, bend all kinds of notes out of it, and put the thing back on the shelf. Sounds like I will need to give it more attention that I had originally anticipated.
|
Fingers
126 posts
Dec 08, 2011
2:17 PM
|
Out of all the harps i have used in 12 years the only ones that i have never had to open is the Seydel soloist pro! every one has been perfect OOTB.
|
Post a Message
|
