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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Blocking Holes for Better Tone..LP and TB
Blocking Holes for Better Tone..LP and TB
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harpdude61
1159 posts
Nov 14, 2011
6:52 AM
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Greg Heumann's excellent response to a comment
I made on another thread really got me to thinking.
I said that I believe a lip purser can get the full, rich tone that a tongue blocker can. I certainly do as an acoustic tone.
He asked if I could play the 4/5 draw, pursed and block all the holes on both sides of this much used double stop. I cannot in the context of playing.
He is speaking of a miked tone of course.
I play pursed with a moderate amount of tongue blocked splits, overbends, and use all 10 holes. I cannot and do not try to block the other holes that I am not playing.
I use a Ultimate 57 and have no problem sealing a good cup while still using all of the harp. My seal, however, is the back of the harp, not the front.
No way could I move around the harp the way I do if I had to worry about blocking holes.
His comment was that he blocks the holes to the left of the 4/5 with his tongue while blocking the holes to the right pressed against his jaw. Some may use fingers on the right side.
I see where this would give maximum seal to give the tone he describes.
I guess using these guidelines I will never have an amplified tone that matches that of a tongue blocker.
I would love to hear comments on blocking unused holes from players of all types.
Last Edited by on Nov 14, 2011 7:00 AM
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5F6H
979 posts
Nov 14, 2011
7:27 AM
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If your TB tone sounds significantly different to yout LP tone, or visa versa, then you are doing something different/wrong with one or the other.
Articulation and percussive effects apart, the tonality of the body of the note can be excellent using either method. TB'ing can inherantly lead to a bigger cavity, but you can work on that with any embouchure. My feeling is that a wider aperture (inherant in TB'ing) leads to a more damped front to the note, softening & rounding it.
Now, what Greg does is more to do with sealing the harp & mic (not specificaly related to embouchure), I don't see why sealing the holes to the right can't be done with the fingers in either case, holes to the left can still be blocked with the lips/cheek when LP'ing.
Most players, including players that Greg knows, do not use this fully sealed approach, certainly not all TB'ers (just check any photos & footage) some do & sound great, there's no one way to get a good tone.
If it works for you then do it, but even if not, concentrate & getting a full & round sound.
Most players can't tell just from listening whether they are hearing a TB embouchure or otherwise, they normally rely totally on the presence of slaps & articulation for clues....otherwise no one would need to ask about embouchures, everyone would just "know" for sure from a blind listen...the police would just arrest people that "looked like" criminals...no one would need passports because everyone would "just know" who was Korean or French, and so on...;-)
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www.myspace.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Nov 14, 2011 7:30 AM
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harpdude61
1160 posts
Nov 14, 2011
8:23 AM
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5f6h...
I'm not asking which embouchure gives a better tone. I'm talking about blocking or not blocking holes using either method in a miked situation. I will say that I do not understand your comment about TBing leading to a bigger cavity. On a single note my mouth is very open, throat very open, tongue pulled down and out of the way, and bringing the air from the depths of my diaphragm. I can't see how I could get a bigger cavity....even TBing
Upon review of my own style (sorry for not doing this before my first post) while playing 4/5 draw lip pursed....with my embouchure, holes 1,2,3 are blocked with my lip as are holes 6,7,8.... so I'm much closer to what Greg describes than I first thought. Adjust the opening, try the jaw, or my thumb and I have it.
I guess I'm lip blocking the holes and did not realize it.
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hvyj
1958 posts
Nov 14, 2011
8:33 AM
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As i understand it, what Greg does is designed to optimally overdrive a bullet mic element to generate a certain type of distortion for Chicago style blues playing. The technique also works for better hand wahs for acoustic playing if a player is into that sort of thing.
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5F6H
980 posts
Nov 14, 2011
8:40 AM
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"On a single note my mouth is very open, throat very open, tongue pulled down and out of the way, and bringing the air from the depths of my diaphragm. I can't see how I could get a bigger cavity....even TBing" Cool, sounds like you have a pretty good technique. Also try it without pulling your tongue down & out of the way, let it sit above the tips of your lower teeth?
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www.myspace.com/markburness
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HarpNinja
1887 posts
Nov 14, 2011
9:09 AM
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I think I get what you're saying. Look at how Dennis Gruenling holds a bullet mic compared to how Jason Ricci holds a stick mic.
The issue at hand isn't embochure, but rather mic technique, right?
I play a lot no the top end of the harp...as much as the low end at least, if not more. I wrestle with that all the time too, as I tend to not get a full seal with a 57 on the high end. However, when I try doing that, it is almost too in-your-face. I just try to do what sounds best.
I am by no means a tone monster. However, when I am gigging, or just not slumped in a chair (like at home), I know my tone on the upper octave is at least good. Meaning, the change in cupping technique is what I try and tweak vs what the rest of my body is doing. End result....I don't block the wholes to the right of my thumb.
I try to keep my right thumb against my cheek as I move up, so eventually, I might have the right side blocked, but not the left.
I think Adam Gussow does the same sort of thing. As a one-man-band, I pretty much play one handed, so think about this way less.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
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hvyj
1960 posts
Nov 14, 2011
10:01 AM
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Yeah. I play the whole harp and use the upper octave all the time. I can also play pretty fast when i want to. i like using a tight cup but the total harp block thing with a bullet mic doesn't seem to work all that well for the way i play. That's not necessarily the tone I'm trying to achieve, either.
But if you listen to Greg on the vids he's posted he has a really good sound. For his style of play and the gear he uses, his hole blocking technique works exceptionally well.
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